Reserve Scarcity.

S

spikeymikey

Member
Hello all,
I just got a Prussian reserve/landwhere EM helmet.This one didnt look that wonderful in the photo's but I took a chance because I had'nt seen a reserve EM from any state for ages. Luckily theres no issues with this and after a bit of a clean up its now a really nice piece.
But my question is this: How scarce are EM reserve helmets? I hardly ever see 'em. Officer - no problem. The proportion of EM helmets dont seem to correspond to the numbers of Officer reserve/landwhere helmets out there.
Is it me or is there an imbalance here?

Mike. :???:
 
Thats very interesting, Joe and echoes a few of my thoughts. I'll re-read this tomorrow. You dont think they could have been dished out with some kind of seniority factor in mind, do you? Like a Gefreiter or a Vice-Feldwebel getting the available crosses over a normal enlisted man?
 
You dont think they could have been dished out with some kind of seniority factor in mind, do you?
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No I might dig up some pics later. It seems to have been random. More like this unit had a trove so everyone got them. Then they just went with no cross. I guess supply was the factor but I have no proof. I cannot even explain it in peacetime.
 
Cheers joe, I look forward to seeing the pictures.

A funny thing, when I looked at this article again I drifted on to the depot marks one. About 3/4 of the way down the page are two M15's - I think from Amy's collection. In the close-up of the Prussian you can see the shadow left by the support disc having at one time been on the exterior of the helmet. I've seen either the disc or the impression of the disc on at least a half dozen helmets now and Brian has seen it in contemporary photographs so.........???

Why?!! :???:
 
and Brian has seen it in contemporary photographs so.........???
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Do I seem like St. Thomas? I think rings on the outside existed. Some collectors do --others do not. Some collectors have done the "flip" others not. I have not seen contemporary pics! This could be exciting! I was once told that the outer rings were protection vs. shrapnel.....what an odd thought.
 
As a matter of fact, I do. This comes from the book Mud Blood and Poppycock by Gordon Corrigan. There is a photo section in the book that shows wounded Brits two of which are wearing Bavarian souvenir helmets. One of these is an M15 with spike removed. The other shows an M95 with spike and base removed but with the tin disc on top of the helme being held by the domed split brads. I can scan this pic at school but give me a few weeks as I want to post more pics in the period foto section.
Now, one could say that the helme might have been played with but, these guys are all bandaged up with their wound tags on them and ready for Blighty. The individual wearing this helme has his left arm in a sling so it is doubtful that he would have been removing spikes. In my collecting experience I have encountered tin on the outside with spike twice. Naturally, I just figured some civilian had dicked with the thing. However, Randy T told me years ago that even in 1914 German troops were knocking off their brass spikes because they revealed their where abouts. So bear with me and I will get the foto scanned. I will also submit a couple of pics of an intersting M95 spike base that I have. Stay tuned, Brian

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All we talking about two different things? I think this is the picture, Mike was talking about.
DepotMarks_24.jpg

this is an example that I have of a fiber helmet.
Fah_12.jpg

Fah_08.jpg
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This ought to stir the pot! By the way Brian I have heard that the book Mud Blood and Poppycock was absolutely horrible. What are your thoughts on it? No effect on the picture of course.
 
Here is another question Mikey. As replacements were sent to the front, did they wear a landwehr cross? A Baden recruit depot April 1916. No landwehr crosses.
badenre3.jpg
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However, some units had landwehr crosses. First, Bavarian Landwehr 1914 in Antwerp.
bavresamsterdam.jpg

bavresamsterdam3.jpg
 
Photo number 2 is exactly what we are talking about Joe. As far as the book Mud Blood...I certainly found it interesting. The author tries to debunk all of the traditional accepted views of WW1 and the Brit leadership ie. useless slaughter and bumbling donkeys.
He approaches the subject as a military man, an ex officer of the modern British Army. The main thrust of his argument is that the Brit leadership had no intention of waisting lives and learned from their mistakes at the end of every battle. He points out that most of these generals were relatively young men and well trained for their task. They tried their best with the resources and technology available to preserve life and at the same time, achieve their objectives. He also presents a dark picture of Lloyd George and the role he played in interfering with the military professionals trying to do their job. You will have to read for yourself but I would certainly not describe the book as terrible. Corrigan takes on the established concepts and myths surrounding Britains' war effort and leadership. Remember...every generation re writes the History books! Brian
 
As promised a couple of pics of an intersting M95 spike base:

027.jpg


028.jpg


I have no idea why someone would have taken the time to solder in the top of this spike let alone dome it. Does this relate to Randy Trawniks comment about M95 spike tops being knocked off early in the war? Brian
 
Thanks to Joe and Brian [It's good to have roped you into this, Brian! :oops: ].
The disc is a weird one. If it was for extra protection I would have expected two discs. Surely it would do the same job inside as out, so why move it to the outside. The fibre helm you show us Joe, is the only time I've seen a helmet with two discs. Maybe it was a fashion thing ".......well Darling, this year discs on the outside are a' la mode" - I've heard this explanation from a dealer.
I have seen a photo of Baden soldier with the un-motto plate and just the punched holes for the cross so maybe it was a supply problem.

That spike is strange - what the hell is going on there?
 
If it was for extra protection
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I think the chances of this being the real reason are almost 0. If not less than zero. The story sounds completely apocryphal to me. However, someone told me that story.

Maybe it was a fashion thing
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I doubt this idea also. Why this existed is some sort of a construction deal, but I don't know why.

I have seen a photo of Baden soldier with the un-motto plate and just the punched holes for the cross so maybe it was a supply problem.
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this is what I call photo envy. I have been working on some stuff on attachments. So, I need this photo!!! Of course am using the word need. Janet would say that what I need is a big Bertha driver. I do.
 
Sorry Joe, the photo was on ebay a long while back. I should have grabbed it. So you've just got my word for it. { did you get that Sachsen group shot yesterday? I was gonna go for that till I saw you bidding!}

The fashion idea, I have to admit, was just a moment of levity. :oops:
 
Thanks Joe. 1909 is that the date of the shot? - If so the omission is nothing to do with impending war shortages or the mad rush to equip?
 
Correct. It is 1909. No I cannot explain it. These guys were detailed by the AVB to muster and participate in 1909 to do their reserve stint. Clothing of the dudes was done by the corps BKA in the corps determined by the AVB. Was it central? Was it company level? Where are the crosses? Obviously varied by corps but they are "scarce".
 
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