Sachsen Pickelhaube Mystery

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Hi R1:

Yep! It's exceptionally clean. The cap I wear when working outdoors is the grossest thing imaginable. When it becomes wet, it drips brine, having absorbed so much perspiration.

I've never disagreed with your, or Tony's, point of view. It makes as much sense as anything else.

Chas.
 
I have to disagree. I have a Saxon M95 issue piece incise marked in the neckguard BAXII 12, inkstamped 177R Verkauft 14. Inside the dome is a paper label naming it to a OYV in the 2nd Komp. 177 Regt.
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Okay Steve this is a bombshell! You cannot just drop this without giving us pictures. There are several issues in your statement. The first is what is a one year volunteer doing with an issue helmet? The next is what does verkauft mean in a marking?

DepotMarks_06.jpg

verkauft%20saxon.jpg


If verkauft means that someone could buy from the Kammer or other crown property depot, it would make some sense. Certainly this is a rare thing. The first example, I put in comes from Al's collection, and the second one is a Saxon helmet, which has all sorts of interesting points to it. I had always thought that verkauft meant purchased from the supplier. I have no proof of this and frankly it is not holding up very well. Chas put up a link to the Wehrmacht awards forum where the claim was that an officer purchase an issued tunic. Actually the claim is a little bit more lengthy.

The second verkauft example has a dome stud for the spine. What is more interesting though is that it has a unit use Mark dated 1893. Was this helmet purchased by an individual from the unit? Was this a Saxon thing?

So Steve. Lets see the pictures!

I forgot to mention that I failed to buy a picture of a group of Braunschweig one year volunteers that looked like they had issued helmets. Someone outbid me. What else is new?
 
Hi Joe:

What is the item number for the Braunschweig photo? I'd like to have a look see.

Sachsen helmets are becoming curiouser and curiouser.

Chas.
 
The Threads breaking up, Chas - I cant hold Her!!!

I had heard from the Weitzemeister and another sauce that Saxony was a very wealthy state at the turn of the Century and Saxon Soldiers could often afford better quality schmutter than the rest of 'em. Could this have any relevance?

And what other Star Dreck quotes were there? I'd forgotten the 'Magician' one. Ace stuff! I wonder how much would Scotty's screwdriver fetch on Ebay?
 
What is the item number for the Braunschweig photo?
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It was quite a while ago I have no number just fond memories. In those days I used to think that the image owner held certain copyright rights....ah youth.
 
I had heard from the Weitzemeister and another sauce that Saxony was a very wealthy state at the turn of the Century and Saxon Soldiers could often afford better quality schmutter than the rest of 'em. Could this have any relevance?
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Interesting, I think I have several sources, which might contradict this idea. The e-mails I have received have been largely confused like us.

On the issue of the back spine connector. People indicate that they have seen the issue helmets both ways frequently. There seems to be no understanding of why one way or the other.

On the issue of Verkauft, this seems to be opening the door to the used helmet market. Consensus seems to be that verkauft means bought by somebody or some entity from the government. No details more to follow.

On the issue of Diensthelme varieties. These seem to be common and specific to the retailer. All private purchase. However, there are some examples being explained of some odd issue helmets. I hope to have pictures soon

The issue of upgrades. General consensus is that private purchase upgrades were possible in any form or style, issue upgrades were found frequently with pierced Eagles only and in one case with a private purchase type liner only.
 
Okay Joe, here are some pics of my Saxon "verkauft". It's a standard EM M95 all the way. I always assumed that a OYV could purchase issue stuff if he was too cheap to go for a flashier model. Steve
IMG_7881.jpg
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Hi Steve:

Absolutely fantastic! Thank you so much for sharing these pictures. It's impossible to refute evidence like this.

Chas.
 
Yup, I'll buy it. That is superb, Steve, and along with what we have already seen, tops off a 'haubfest that will be remembered in legend and song. Theres something really sweet about this one. Can we see some more external views? Any makers stamp?
I must try to post a shot of my Sachsen Artillery Officer lid, but for me - and I know it's a weird attitude - a good looking EM 'haube with depot marks and a name tag kicks the butt of most Officer helmets.

And Joe, [hoarse Brando voice] -''dont go against The Weitzemeister...."
 
And Joe, [hoarse Brando voice] -''dont go against The Weitzemeister...."
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:D :D :D I always seem to be in this roll as the minority opinion! Sort of a liberal justice on the US supreme Court. I am I, Don Quioxte.....

Now Steve has just followed through! Saxon. So now we search for other states with Verkauft. Alan yours is on a Saxon too isn't it? Randy Trawnick and I had a long discussion on this one yesterday. We have to chase down info on "gebrauchte Helm" . Randy will probably be brining some new stuff Remy digs up to SOS.

Bless you Steve!
 
epsomgreen said:
// It's impossible to refute evidence like this.
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Evidence of what exactly? This is the first time I have ever seen an issued
helmet marked as sold, but sold for what reason? What it removed from service? Or did this particular Armee korps allow Einjährig-Freiwilliger to buy clothing and headgear from the clothing depot. Was it only this Korps? Or others? This is unheard of in my experience, but here it is. It is also (big point here...) a standard issued and unaltered M95.
It does not address the discussion of so-called "upgraded" issue quality helmets with private-purchase parts.
:argue:

But it certainlly is an incredible marking and a great helmet. Good for you Steve. :thumbright:

Is this a record, five pages for a thread?
 
.....evidence that a Sachsen OYV had the option of purchasing an issued helmet for his kit (nothing more); something I would have been hard pressed to believe until today.

Chas.
 
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