Sawtooth 1884/98 Bayonet

b.loree

b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
Hi Everyone:
I bought this at an antiques show in Kincardine Ontario years ago. I almost missed it as it was amongst a bunch of antique tools under a display table. The piece is marked 1 E MGK XV AK. This represents 1st Ersatz Machine Gun Kompanie 15th Army Korps. The manufacturer is GEBR. HELLER MARIENTHAL. The waffen number is stamped on the reverse side 223 . Also in this area on the blade, is a stamped a crown with ERFURT underneath. A small number 4 is stamped in the groove for the rifle barrel. There is also a Wilhelm "W" and Crown strike on the end of the handle. I have been told that the scabbard is WW2....it is stamped fze 44 on one side and 2752 a on the other. I would appreciate knowing if this is true so that I can shop for a WW1 scabbard and frog., Any help re what this frog should look like would be appreciated ie is it the same as the common butcher style? One last question, would it be appropriate to match this up with my 13th MG Kompanie troddel?? Brian
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Brian: Very nice bayonet. The scabbard is from a WWII bayonet.
Your war time machinegun company knot would go very nicely with the bayonet.
A 98/05 frog is too wide for the 84/98 bayonet scabbard. The frog should be the same size as used on the long S98 bayonet.
The scabbard for the 84/98 saw back bayonet should have a small metal block fitted into the opening of the scabbard on the right side. This small blcok protects the scabbard sheetmetal from being damaged by the saw teeth.

Reservist1
 
Brian the scabbard is WW2 issue, manufactured as you probably guessed in '44, not sure of the maker, will try and find out though.
Very nice example of a M 1884/98 n.A. mS or 84/98 new type with sawback. This is one on my wish list. I will send you a scan of the frog for this bayonet. Thanks for posting this one!
 
Thanks a lot R1, I was trying to convince Brian that his 13th Troddel was not worth anthing and that I would take it off his hands as a favor, I had forgotten Brian had this bayonet, from what R1 says, the bayonet scabbard you need is spacific to the saw back.
Gus
 
Many thanks R1 and Wylie for all the information. As I always say I am here to learn and I really appreciate your help. Thanks to you both. I now know what pieces that I have to find. I think the correct scabbard will be the hardest. I had absolutely no clue R1 that a special scabbard design was used for these bayonets. I talked to a bayonet dealer specialist at the SOS and described the piece. He never mentioned a special MGK scabbard just advised that I buy a a poor quality WW1 K98 for the scabbard alone. So, the search comtinues. Brian
 
In my experience, all the WWI 84/98 scabbards are the same - they all have the square side on the throat.
Steve
 
Brian: Steve is correct about the 84/98 scabbards. All the World War I examples all have the small metal block. My mistake.

Reservist1
 
I was on the site for IMA has 98 Scabbards and frogs are always on Ebay
http://www.ima-usa.com/products_new.php/page/24
I hope this will help
 
Many thanks to all for the help. I must admit that I am relieved to know that this bayonet does not require some special sort of scabbard. Zipper, there used to be a bayonet dealer that had a table at the TO militaria show. perhaps he is still in business. If not, I will cruise ebay and ask for assistance again from you guys. Zipper , Steve, R1 and Wylie if you see what I need on ebay please let me know. You all know the satisfaction that comes from completing even a simple piece like this bayonet. Brian
 
Hello. My name is Nate. I'm new to this group, and my primary interest is in Imperial German Bayonets. As for this 84/98 sawback, it's a beauty. The correct WW1 era scabbards for the 84/98 2nd pattern (WWI) bayonet differs from the WW2 era in a couple of important ways, most notably the throat screw, which on the WWI era is just above the frog stud, and on the WW2 K98 scabbard is on the side of the scabbard. There are no maker marks on the WW1, and you'll find an inspection stamp on the finial, though these are easily worn off. I don't know if this helps at this point, but I thought I'd contribute.
 
Your post is much appreciated Nate thank you for the added information. This piece was probably picked up by one of our Canucks who was chasing the Germans out of France and Belgium during the last 100 days of the war. If you read the CEF Battalion accounts, the Germans were constantly leaving small MG units behind to slow up the CEF advance so that their main force could escape. The saw teeth are cool but those markings make everything "Super Sized". I can still remember the thrill that I got when I paid the dealer and walked off!! Ron Jeremy had nothing on this boy! Brian
 
AGHHH a hedge hog reference . Mine Gott . You have no shame .
Still a nice bayonet. So a regular WW1 scabbard will do you? I can keep an atch out for one.
Mark :D
 
I've had a couple of these 84/98's marked to MG's. The best one was marked to a Maschinengewehr Scharfschutzen Abtielung. I traded them all to Jeff Noll. I have a 71/84 that is marked to an M.G.K. , but damn if I can find a 71/84 or loose imperial 84/98 scabbard for it.
As already mentioned the 84/98 scabbards are all the same in regards to sawbacks and plain blades. Sure wish this forum would take pic posting direct from the PC - I saved pics of the MG marked pokers I had and would love to share them.
 
Hi:
There are instructions on the site as to how to post pictures. I use photobucket to host mine. There is no cost involved and it is very simple to use...even an old 50's duffer like myself can do it. I would very much like to see your pics. Send them to me if you like and I can post them. Regards, Brian
 
My great grandfather brought one of these back among other things. His unfortunately is not unit marked. The maker is Samson Werk. I to would love to find an original scabard.
 
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