Shako Officer, NCO OYV, Private Purchase ???

[J.LeBrasseur]

Just posted a topic in new finds with my new officer Shako cover. I was going to put it with this Shako I have had for years, but not sure what I have here. I have always thought this Shako was officer because of the quality, but now I am not sure. Does not have the normal felt body seen on officer shako's.

Has OR eagle plate, but Feldzeichan is officer quailty, as are the kokarden, but has leather chinstrap? Inside is very nice silk liner. Leather shell is very high quality, much nicer then others I have. Front visor is very thin fine leather.

Give me your thoughts, NCO or OYV or Private purchase other???

James

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

Give me your thoughts, NCO or OYV or Private purchase other???

Isn't that a nice Tschako. Well done James. As far as rank goes, doesn't the Reich's Kokade answer that question?

Compare to my Garde example which is of a similar quality HERE but for a Private.

Uh.... have you black-lighted that Feldzeichen per chance? Compare to mine above, and then to an officer's Feldzeichen HERE.

 

[reservist1]

James: Very nice shako. Here are some photos of a similar quality, other ranks, private purchase JB 7 shako. I also share Tony's concern about the feldzeichen on your shako.

Reservist1

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Thanks guy's you confirmed what I thought! Did not catch the Feldzeichan before, thought it looked good, but after seeing both of yours, I see your point, I will black lite it tomorrow, but sure you are right about it.

James

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Well guy's it passed the black light test with flying colors, it is old for sure. Now what is it. looking at some of my older catalgos, and perhaps Joe can help here, but I see 3 differant types they could purchase of Feldzeichan. Now I am only looking at drawings, but?

I took it off the Shako for the first time since I have owned it, and here are more pictures. You see fading in correct spots etc.

I hate to go against the grain but I think it maybe ok? But I am big enough to handle it if it is not.

Thoughts??

James

 

[Adler]

Hi James, this tschako surely looks good to me. As a matter of facts, I have a Bavarian one (with standard liner) in the same configuration, but mod. 1915.
I think they are Eigetumsstück (privately purchased) Tschako for an Unteroffizier mit Portepee.
The privately purchased feldzeigen can be very different in shape, since they were made by different companies. Imo the feldzeigen on your tschako is ok...

Adler

 

[reservist1]

Hello Jmes: The question marks for me concerning the feldzeichsen are:
1. The style of weaving in the corded portion. and
2. The apparant thickness of the woven cord.

I have never seen that style cording on Imperial German feldzeichens or other insignia.

As for the black light, there are two schools of thought concerning black lights, those who believe in them and those who do not. I happen to be part of the group who see no real value to the use of black lights.

Reservist1

 

[USMC-EOD]

Hello gentlemen,

Thank you for posting this info on shakos. I am learning a lot about them on this forum.

I would be interested to know the approximate time period that the wire screen vents went into use with this type of headgear? I noticed that the private purchase shako pictures submitted by James utilized the wire mesh screen vents while Adler's issue shako had the typical salt shaker style. I assume that the wire type were of a higher quality for officer/private purchase helmets.

I have seen the wire mesh screen vents on a lot of issue post war police shakos and I also assume that the same private purchase firms from the First World War were providing them after the war to fulfill contracts. Would this be correct?

Also, were the salt shaker type vents no longer utilized on issue shakos after WWI?

Thanks,

Bryan.

 

[Larmo]

Hi James

My thoughts are that there are other factors to include in the diagnosis of the badge in question. In your pictures a nice mix of red and black rust may be seen on the metal mounting wire, a good age sign and on the reverse of the badge, the black velvet shows wear and use up around the top curve, just where you would expect to see it on a piece a century or more old. In addition the black color is beginning to turn brown and fade, an occurance I've seen on other fabrics of equal age. James you also mention that you have owned the Tschako for years, did it come from a good source?

I agree regarding the controversy concerning the black light issue. In the past I have had items that were direct veteran purchases that did glow a bit under a UV light but were 100% from the era. In my view, for good or bad, the UV test is pretty much the accepted rule for white thread or fabric.

Great looking Tschako James.

Larry

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Thanks for all the feedback etc.

As far as the black light issue, I know it is not a exact test, but a few forum members asked if I had doen it on the Feldzeichan, so I did. again, I know it is not full proof.

The more I look at the piece, the more I like it and for now will just go with that.

thanks

James

 

[minihelmets]

interesting subject but no mention of the shako itself. What's the betting that shako body had a cloth covering. The top and front and rear visors are infinately better finished than the body. The bodies were quite rough leather under the cloth.. Kinda the same as the interior of the fire helmets. I bet somebody has blackenned this . It is way too poor compared to the top

Even the slot holster for the oval that's a slot made to be covered and not seen . It would be worth finding the correct material and having it resored. Probably a lot easier in the first place than trying to blacken the body and make it uniformly smooth