Shoulder Board Cipher Identication Please!

S

simon505

New member
Hi All,

I know this shoulder board is for an officer of the 3rd Bavarian Infantry Regiment but I gather that there were two different types of cipher issued.

As I have never been able to make out what the ciphers are supposed to say, I wonder whether anyone is able to tell me which one of the two ciphers I have.

http://img40.imageshack.us/i/p1010008ic.jpg/

http://img708.imageshack.us/i/s3rdbavirboard4.jpg/


I gather this board is scarce but by no means a rare example. I understand from Chip that the EMs field grey examples are very difficult to find.

Thanks in advance,

Simon
 
Kgl. Bayer. 3. Infanterie-Regt. Prinz Karl von Bayern (Augsburg) I Bayer. Armee-Korps.

The cypher is IPRK 3 for 3rd Infanterie regt Prince Karl.
 
Thanks Tony.

Do the four letters in the cipher translate to something auf Deutsch?

I though I read/heard somewhere that there was later cipher introduced for this regiment that was just 'PK'? Or is that just moonshine on my part?!

Best,

Simon
 
Sorry, type-error. It is Deutsch. The letters are IRPK. Looking at the cypher you admit, it just looks like a ball of string. Very hard to make out. I am afraid I know nothing about a later cypher. Tony
 
Thanks Tony,

I understand that this type of cipher is fairly scarce but not that rare - does that sound about right do you know?

Best wishes,

Simon
 
Simon, I regret that I do not think in terms of "rare" or "scrace". That means nothing to me. For example, I need 6 straps to have all 192 Infanterie regts. I need six pairs of Ulan epaulettes to have all 26 Regts. So I will pay almost anything to get these. Does that make them rare? Only to me.

STRAPS WANTED
 
Ha Ha! Good answer!

I have to say that as a collector I am not - and never have been - interested in collecting rare items. To have something from a conflict such as the Great War I consider to be enough of a prize in itself. The reason I ask whether I have something rare is that I am always wary of fakes, repros etc. I'm generally far more satisfied with something that is run of the mill and common than a scarce or rare type. Whilst it's nice to have something that is a bit varied or scarce I am just satisfied that it was 'there'.

I suppose I assumed that Cipher boards are in higher demand as they're a bit more interesting than the numbered examples. By the way, I am very fond of your Prussian Hussar Tunic and its boards.

Best,

Simon
 
Simon,

I think we may have discussed this before when we were talking about your officer board. The regiment did change cyphers in 1916. Here is the before and after.

Chip

 
Hi Chip,

Thanks for that - not being much of a cipher reader I can now tell which example of the two I have.

I cam across some boards the other day which I though might interest you:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WW1-imperial-german-shoulder-boards-/190531268769?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item2c5c8c70a1

Best wishes,

Simon
 
Simon,

Thanks for thinking of me, but I must tell you that it looks like all of the straps in that frame are fakes. They are all made by the same person/persons and this type has been on the market for years. They are easy to spot as they are poorly made, only vaguely like the originals, put on material of the wrong color, etc., etc.

Regards,
Chip
 
Really? That's incredibly perceptive given how poor the photos are. Seems there's a lack of chain-stitched examples and a few too many ciphers all together.

I suppose the frame looks old so it'll convince a few people.
 
Hey Chip,
Normally, you are correct, but I have to agree with Simon, you are very pereceptive. I know it is easy for you to spot correct cloth and stitching, but then you have a skill and knowledge base that the rest of us do not have.
Best
Gus
ps It is great to be able to say "You are wrong", I do not expect I will get another chance.
 
Gustaf said:
Hey Chip,
Normally, you are correct, but I have to agree with Simon, you are very pereceptive. I know it is easy for you to spot correct cloth and stitching, but then you have a skill and knowledge base that the rest of us do not have.
Best
Gus
ps It is great to be able to say "You are wrong", I do not expect I will get another chance.
Click to expand...

I love you too man! :D
 
Chip,

Are the two boards you have posted a photo of both in your collection? I thought you said that you were still on the hunt for an EM's 3rd IR board with pre 1916 cipher? ( I recall there was a picture on the wants list you sent me a little while back)

Or is the one you have an M07/10 example and you're after an M1915.

Simon
 
simon505 said:
Chip,

Are the two boards you have posted a photo of both in your collection? I thought you said that you were still on the hunt for an EM's 3rd IR board with pre 1916 cipher? ( I recall there was a picture on the wants list you sent me a little while back)

Or is the one you have an M07/10 example and you're after an M1915.

Simon
Click to expand...

Simon,

Yes, I do own both of the pieces shown. The example on the left is an M07 and I am looking for the M15 pattern. There are a series of excellent fakes for the cyphered Bavarian regiments, so you have to be extra careful, as they are really quite good. As with all reproductions, however, there are tell-tale qualities that expose them for what they are. So far, I have seen the following regiments, 1IR, 2IR, 3IR, 1.FAR. I have not seen the Inf.Leib.Rgt., 6IR, 10IR or the 7.FAR, but I would not be surprised if they exist.

I have had some major disagreements with a few collectors about their originality, but I have enough proof to change anyone's mind. I first saw these back in the 1980s when a collector brought quite a few pairs back from Europe. He was selling them as originals, but when I caught on, he confessed and said he would recall all he had sold. I don't think that happened, as I have seen them in many collections and for sale on reputable websites. Over time modifications have been made to them to correct the original mistakes, but they are still easily recognizable if you are alert and know what to look for.

Best regards,
Chip
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top