skull and bones, button die
- Thread starter stuka f
- Start date
Khukri
Well-known member
Another possibility...
British 17th Lancers
"Death or Glory Boys"
http://www.google.be/search?gs_rn=19&gs_ri=psy-ab&cp=3&gs_id=a&xhr=t&q=17track&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.bGE&biw=984&bih=507&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=nl&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=TVbUUeSBN4nK4AS4zoHYBg#um=1&hl=nl&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=17th+lancers+buttons&oq=17th+lancers+buttons&gs_l=img.12...4867.15527.0.19667.21.14.1.6.6.0.160.1615.6j8.14.0....0...1c.1.19.img.O3tsQFetsj4&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.ZGU&fp=d85c467b9ff30279&biw=984&bih=507" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Have a look at this link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307443/Medal-maker-300-year-old-regalia-firm-craftsmen-make-awards-adorn-bravest-soldiers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Francis
British 17th Lancers
"Death or Glory Boys"
http://www.google.be/search?gs_rn=19&gs_ri=psy-ab&cp=3&gs_id=a&xhr=t&q=17track&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.bGE&biw=984&bih=507&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=nl&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=TVbUUeSBN4nK4AS4zoHYBg#um=1&hl=nl&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=17th+lancers+buttons&oq=17th+lancers+buttons&gs_l=img.12...4867.15527.0.19667.21.14.1.6.6.0.160.1615.6j8.14.0....0...1c.1.19.img.O3tsQFetsj4&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.ZGU&fp=d85c467b9ff30279&biw=984&bih=507" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Have a look at this link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307443/Medal-maker-300-year-old-regalia-firm-craftsmen-make-awards-adorn-bravest-soldiers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Francis
stuka f
Well-known member
Hey Francis,
thanks a lot!
I did take the death and glory's in to consideration, but it is defenetly different in details.
For one the eyes of mine are round, those of the 17th Lancers aren't, also different type of bones.
I like the second link as I have got a very similar collection of die's as the one that is showed there.
I do have some knowledge about die's and that is a extra reason why I think it is German, due to the matrix shape and the style of the numbers .
cheers
|<ris
thanks a lot!
I did take the death and glory's in to consideration, but it is defenetly different in details.
For one the eyes of mine are round, those of the 17th Lancers aren't, also different type of bones.
I like the second link as I have got a very similar collection of die's as the one that is showed there.
I do have some knowledge about die's and that is a extra reason why I think it is German, due to the matrix shape and the style of the numbers .
cheers
|<ris
stuka f
Well-known member
Hey Francis,
originaly I had like 50.000 die's, now some thing like 5000 remains, but I am still slendering the collection to a lower number.
Unfortunatly I never had the grenade die, nor a khukri die or a lancers plate....
But i do have the lions head ment to fit on the side of the shako's, retaining the chain.
I do supose they are similar to the tchapska lions , exept for the support plate they are on...forgive if they aren't, it has been a long time since i inspected a tchapska....altough it is on my list if i ever have the chance of getting one!!!
I do use them myself, but not in the way they should be used; that means i did not kept the heavy presses to struck the insigna's with.
But there is a alternative way, so that the copy's I make can easely be seen as copy's but still have the propper look!
It is just a personal policy so that they couldn't decieve anyone at any time.
And it is less work!! :-" \
/ :-#
The most spectaculare die I own is that of the crest of the helmet shown in my avatar.
But I do own some other die's of very scarce Belgian insigna's, button's and medals.
I think I will be getting the collection down to something like 500 die's, that at least is the plan...that will still be representing more or less 1000 kg of "scrap".... :wink:
Cheers
|<ris
originaly I had like 50.000 die's, now some thing like 5000 remains, but I am still slendering the collection to a lower number.
Unfortunatly I never had the grenade die, nor a khukri die or a lancers plate....
But i do have the lions head ment to fit on the side of the shako's, retaining the chain.
I do supose they are similar to the tchapska lions , exept for the support plate they are on...forgive if they aren't, it has been a long time since i inspected a tchapska....altough it is on my list if i ever have the chance of getting one!!!
I do use them myself, but not in the way they should be used; that means i did not kept the heavy presses to struck the insigna's with.
But there is a alternative way, so that the copy's I make can easely be seen as copy's but still have the propper look!
It is just a personal policy so that they couldn't decieve anyone at any time.
And it is less work!! :-" \
/ :-# The most spectaculare die I own is that of the crest of the helmet shown in my avatar.
But I do own some other die's of very scarce Belgian insigna's, button's and medals.
I think I will be getting the collection down to something like 500 die's, that at least is the plan...that will still be representing more or less 1000 kg of "scrap".... :wink:
Cheers
|<ris
poniatowski
Well-known member
What an interesting article! I'd love to work someplace like that.
Ron
Ron
stuka f
Well-known member
Glad you like it!
Here is (one of!)the crest die with a example of it in fornt!The example I made was casted in the die.
Once colored one can't tell the difference on a picture. In hand you will notice, but it isn't made to decieve!!
Thise is the complete die of the lion's head that comes on Belgian 19 th century cap's.
Altough, I believe the die is a modern made one! Old die's look different! I think thise was made on demande!
Many re-enactors dating from long before it became a hype, used such headdresses, for anual local town parades.
I tried to make cupper examples, but it wasn't satisfying!!!
Here is (one of!)the crest die with a example of it in fornt!The example I made was casted in the die.
Once colored one can't tell the difference on a picture. In hand you will notice, but it isn't made to decieve!!
Thise is the complete die of the lion's head that comes on Belgian 19 th century cap's.
Altough, I believe the die is a modern made one! Old die's look different! I think thise was made on demande!
Many re-enactors dating from long before it became a hype, used such headdresses, for anual local town parades.
I tried to make cupper examples, but it wasn't satisfying!!!
stuka f
Well-known member
No easy job indeed!
I got all my die's from a factory I cleared in Antwerp, called Indian Caps.
I had all the machinery as well, but sold them quiet rapidely! The making of a insigna, button or medal is a rather complex matter.
Only adjusting the machine took several days; to much pressure the die exploses, not enough pressure equals poor detail.
Here is a complete set of die's (the one of the Belgian para cap insigna!).
It includes, the positive, negative and cutting die!
One seldom see sets that complete! The most important die is the negative, all other are luxurus.
The cut out was mostly done by hand (and file!), the positive matrix generaly was a casted piece mixed with all -round positive die's.
Because every die was expensive to get.
The set of die's showed here could cost the price of a middle class car back the the '80 ties.
I got all my die's from a factory I cleared in Antwerp, called Indian Caps.
I had all the machinery as well, but sold them quiet rapidely! The making of a insigna, button or medal is a rather complex matter.
Only adjusting the machine took several days; to much pressure the die exploses, not enough pressure equals poor detail.
Here is a complete set of die's (the one of the Belgian para cap insigna!).
It includes, the positive, negative and cutting die!
One seldom see sets that complete! The most important die is the negative, all other are luxurus.
The cut out was mostly done by hand (and file!), the positive matrix generaly was a casted piece mixed with all -round positive die's.
Because every die was expensive to get.
The set of die's showed here could cost the price of a middle class car back the the '80 ties.
joerookery
Well-known member
Interesting, quite a process I had not thought about. Thank you!
stuka f
Well-known member
Hey Karel!
I understand it isn't one's cup of tea. It wasn't mine eighter, but I am stuck with it! ;-)
About it been impressive!? ....it is!!.... when it comes to move it all! I did it ....3 times!!
That is the reason I am cutting it donwn to a reasonable number.
Many found a good home, others didn't....
I am sure that when you would found one, of a scarce pickelhaube at a reasonable price, that you would buy it!
And that is what would be reasonable; to have one specimen, to ad to a collection, as a curiosity.
I just had a great and intresting time handling them!
Just the nobility button die's brought us at places, meeting people we would otherwise never had seen.
cheers
|<ris
I understand it isn't one's cup of tea. It wasn't mine eighter, but I am stuck with it! ;-)
About it been impressive!? ....it is!!.... when it comes to move it all! I did it ....3 times!!
That is the reason I am cutting it donwn to a reasonable number.
Many found a good home, others didn't....
I am sure that when you would found one, of a scarce pickelhaube at a reasonable price, that you would buy it!
And that is what would be reasonable; to have one specimen, to ad to a collection, as a curiosity.
I just had a great and intresting time handling them!
Just the nobility button die's brought us at places, meeting people we would otherwise never had seen.
cheers
|<ris
stuka f
Well-known member
Hey Brian,
thanks for your intrest!
I couldn't possible tell you how a Wappen was made, but I try to put the info I have got about the process of Belgian insigna's.
I don't know anyone holding one and I never seen one!
It is within my field of intrest by having the one's i have and therefore when seeing a die, even at a distance, I always want to know more details.
But you do not encouter them a lot, the most I see are German TR periode die's.
Usualy those things went to the scrap when used or when orders failed.
Keeping them, needs space and time to maintain them. Also selling them for scrap brought some money in to order new die's that were actual, for that time.
The Indian Cap's collection held German TR periode die's! The one's that were used during the war to provide the occupant forces with the insigna's, buckles and buttons they needed!
Many foreign items were made in Belgium. I have got Imperial Russian army and civilian button's die's, Egyptian tramway's buttons, Brazilian Navy, Dutch, even British and American's,Persian and Congo!
I'll be back later with more info!
I need to find them in my files or in real! ;-)
cheers
|<ris
thanks for your intrest!
I couldn't possible tell you how a Wappen was made, but I try to put the info I have got about the process of Belgian insigna's.
I don't know anyone holding one and I never seen one!
It is within my field of intrest by having the one's i have and therefore when seeing a die, even at a distance, I always want to know more details.
But you do not encouter them a lot, the most I see are German TR periode die's.
Usualy those things went to the scrap when used or when orders failed.
Keeping them, needs space and time to maintain them. Also selling them for scrap brought some money in to order new die's that were actual, for that time.
The Indian Cap's collection held German TR periode die's! The one's that were used during the war to provide the occupant forces with the insigna's, buckles and buttons they needed!
Many foreign items were made in Belgium. I have got Imperial Russian army and civilian button's die's, Egyptian tramway's buttons, Brazilian Navy, Dutch, even British and American's,Persian and Congo!
I'll be back later with more info!
I need to find them in my files or in real! ;-)
cheers
|<ris
Schiavona13
Member
joerookery said:
Here two short german films about making helmets and making kitchen utilities from helmets by punching with Die's
http://www.youtube.com/embed/dqyaOvXvSnE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ayj6Fy9-K4k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
joerookery
Well-known member
Nice movie! Just a couple of thoughts – I guess I didn't know that in World War II the government collected pots and pans for that purpose. I know they did in World War I. I wish we had such a movie about the World War I metal helmets. Thanks for posting that!
stuka f
Well-known member
hey Francis,Khukri said:Ok, fine.
A question: do you use those dies yourself ?
You don't have a nice khukri button-die ?
Or Belgian lancers tschapka plate/lionhead-sidepost dies-or grenadier bearskin-grenade dies... :wink:
Rgds,
Francis
I managed to make a impression of the die, it is casted and ressistand to high temperatures, it can be threated anyway you want it to.
It is on the right on the next picture along with lion's heads i found recently in my storage.
