Small Silver Skulls

[rick diehl]

Hello, I've been meaning to post this here for some better feedback. Wasn't sure which forum here to post it under.

I’m looking for input on four small silver skulls made of alpaca that I added to my collection. They were obtained by a trusted source from an estate sale in Germany which all items dated to around 1900. The skulls are quite small but very well detailed, and all four are slightly curved. There was glue residue on the backs from a later use (they had been glued to shot glasses for years), which I have since carefully removed.

I thought at first whether these might be from stickpins, but the curvature and form didn't seem right. A description accompanying them suggested they were similar to fittings mounted on the hilt or guard of a saber like a guard star.

I have been looking for a period example and got lucky on ebay, I came across a photograph of a Hussar wearing skulls not only on his cap, but also a small skull mounted on his sword, along with a skull totenkopf ring. The skull on the sword closely matches the size, style, and curvature of these pieces, suggesting they may have been decorative saber fittings, possibly mounted on or near the guard or grip.

Any thoughts, comparable examples, or references to similar skull fittings on sabers or edged weapons would be greatly appreciated. I seen a sword on a dealers site, but was a panzer ww2 skull added later.

Thank you for looking.



Next to wehrwolf skulls for a size comparison.

 

[rick diehl]

Thank you! The link won't open for me. If anyone can please take a screenshot to post it here. I would be much appreciative!

 

[gino1]

You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.

 

[Doug B]

Never seen curved Tks. Can you please show the backs of them?

 

[rick diehl]

The backs.

 

[JustinG]

I am always a bit skeptical. These badges were also used by armored units of the second world war as you stated. These are a minefield as well, as a highly reproduced piece.
If you are happy with your purchase, that's all that matters.

Best Regards,
JustinG

 

[911car]

If you are happy with your purchase, that's all that matters.

A killer sentence, since Rick was actually asking for opinions and advice...
I agree this is a very difficult question though.

 

[rick diehl]

I am always a bit skeptical. These badges were also used by armored units of the second world war as you stated.

No these weren't used in the second world war, it is much smaller than a panzer skull. These are much smaller and made of alpaca, the attachment points are also different.
What I stated "I seen a sword on a dealers site, but was a panzer ww2 skull added later".

Here is that one, clearly a panzer skull added later.



One more like mine, but I believe the proper spot for mine is like on the postcard I posted.

 

[rick diehl]

Another user's post on another forum site:



A better size comparison.

 

[JustinG]

Again, jawless SS skulls are also a possibility vs Armored (panzer) insignia. The Danziger style was continuous and copied by the Armored and early SS. Size being a difference. 1934 is when the SS changed to the full jaw Totenkopf design. The Photo you shared does show a soldier wearing a deaths head on his Tellermütze and on the sword guard. Thanks for showing us some examples. You did ask for opinions. I am just pointing out what I am seeing. Here are my two WW2 versions for Panzer. My two versions were held by pins. I have seen these also with side tabs on the edges. One can appreciate that they would have had these templates and casts for the skulls and were just able to re-issue. The attachments of your pieces that you posted appear to have been all one casting. The Tab versions have the pins on the base near the teeth and two prongs on upper skull head. In the photo you shared, it is very difficult to dissern the details of the particular skull. I would like to see the skull in the photo with the red backing showing all the versions (the upper right skull reverse please). The one with the more oxidized version to see the attachment pin. Thanks.
Best regards,
JustinG

 

[Doug B]

These skulls (OP) are definitely not SS jawless skulls. That used to be an area of keen interest for me and had an extensive collection of SS deaths heads, and I’ve never seen skulls like this used in that time period.

 

[rick diehl]

Thank you for your reply. It is not a WW2 panzer skull they are not the right size.

The skull at the right also is too small for a panzer skull and not oxidized but gold gilded, but not the topic for this thread. It is the same type as in this photo. The OP skulls I believe was made for the use on the sword as in the period photo.