(Solved)Need help with Dragoner Garde pickelhaube

J

Johann

New member
Hello, I am new here and I recently managed to get this pickelhaube. I don't have it here yet so these are all the pictures that I have. It appears to be a Dragoner Garde pickelhaube but I seem to find one that looks like this or simular to it. I'm a little affraid it might just be a part helmet... What do you guys think?

https://imgur.com/gallery/TJlfdiV
 

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Older Garde Dragoner helmet probably pre 1890's. Wide brass visor trim, thick heavy convex chin scales, NCO pearl ring around spike neck, these are all characteristics of an older style helmet. Squared front visor(cut on the diagonal) and proper dragoon rear spine with 2 domed brads holding down the spine, cruciform spike base and tall spike. So a nice older Garde Dragoon helmet. Garde star seems larger but this could be because this is an older helmet with larger helmet plate than those used in the 1890's-1900's This is what I see here.
 
They could have been later additions Jaap. I have an older Saxe helmet in my collection with these characteristics which also has the M91's. We know that the Germans never threw anything out which could be revamped/repaired and reissued. What really stands out are those heavy thick chin scales and wide trim. On another note, look at the heavier gauge of leather seen on the rear visor plus I believe the old style nuts in the interior. Hard to see these because of the dark interior shot but I think they are there.
 
"(...) We know that the Germans never threw anything out which could be revamped/repaired and reissued (...)"

That is absolutely true, Brian! The only thing they ever threw out on their own initiative was a well-used and obsolete old Kaiser :D

Oh yes, I certainly agree on the thickness and quality of the various parts, indicating an earlier birth year than '91!
 
Thanks for all the help guys! Very happy to hear its all good with this helmet. Its going to be the crown jewel of my collection :)
 
ps1792 by Joe Robinson, on Flickr

Many of these helmets survive because they became hand-me-downs for one branch of the Imperial German police- the Landesgendarme.The picture above is one of those guys. Regularly these helmets are marked with the initials LG Look for these initials stamped in on the back visor or in the dome of the helmet.

They came in two flavors. Mounted and dismounted. But were converted to police helmets with really no difference to the older style guard Dragoon types.

ps1862 by Joe Robinson, on Flickr

Mounted Landes Gendarmerie in 1898.
The helmets are marked L.G.
 
One of our expert forum members has pointed out in a PM that these chin scales with the special M91 end fittings were introduced in 1891 which would date this helmet from that year. So, I was incorrect in my statement that this was a pre 1891 helmet. It was also pointed out, that the pearl ring around the spike neck was present on all Dragoner OR's helmets even M15's. One last thing to mention is the tall spike on this piece. It is an issued helmet which removes it from the realm of "private purchase" officer "fashion spike".....perhaps an NCO helmet then?? Unfortunately, we will never know.
 
Jaap Verduijn said:
That is absolutely true, Brian! The only thing they ever threw out on their own initiative was a well-used and obsolete old Kaiser :D
Click to expand...

Please do not bully our „Wilhelm zwo“ :wink:
 
Joe, excellent photos, thanks.

The main thing which strikes me about these photos is that the helmets seem way too small for the men’s heads. I know these were hand-me-downs, but, even so...

On reflection, I realise that I seem to have seen lots of officer helmets, presumably bespoke, which seem to perch on top of the wearers’ heads, rather than fit them comfortably. Was there any style/convention/fashion which influenced the look?

Patrick
 
Yes, they shone like patent leather back in the day and thus, the need for the uberzug! That is an excellent photo Joe, thanks for the post. Even the M15's had shells that were polished like that! Will...regarding your comment about considering buying another helmet.....you should be aware of a dangerous affliction called "haubeitis" for which as yet, there is no cure. A number of our members suffer from this and as a result, have collections of 100+ pickelhauben!! It all starts with just one spikey hat and gets totally out of control! :) Keep this in the back of your mind as you consider more Hauben.
 
chinstrap said:
The main thing which strikes me about these photos is that the helmets seem way too small for the men’s heads. I know these were hand-me-downs, but, even so...
Click to expand...

The Helmet size looks ok for me. If I remember right, the Side-Edge of the Helmet should be 3cm above the Ear and the Frontvisor-Trimm should be around the height of the Eyebrow.
I‘m not 100% sure about the measurements, but I will proof it tomorrow :)
 
Thanks Sandy,

The eyebrow bit looks fine, but it’s the gap between the ear and the helmet which looks wrong. Look forward to seeing what you come up with. I know this is what an M95 looks like stuck on my mid 20th head-of course, I may just have a large head!

Patrick
 
This is a screenshot of the Uniform-Guideline for Officers from 1896...The 3cm and Eyebrowline were correct.
6AB9C547-8B8C-40A0-BCEE-4F311060F9C9.png
 
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