Some People Should Do A Little Researching

pickelhauben

pickelhauben

Well-known member
Of course I am no expert , but this sure looks like l a Swiss WW1 helmet that could be had for $75-$150.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW1-US-American-Experimental-Helmet-Hale-Kilburn-Model-5-Original-Very-RARE/322961213693?hash=item4b31fd08fd:g:rg8AAOSwovNaNG0l" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Swiss helmet


https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=swiss+ww1+helmet&qpvt=swiss+ww1+helmet&FORM=IGRE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or am I the one who needs to research ?
 
The Swiss helmet has two vents on it, this doesn't. Also the rear appears to come out more than the Swiss. The chin strap is leather while the description I have of the #5 is that is was canvas. The only #5 I've handled had no liner or strap.
 
It is a Model 5. I have one in my collection. There is no proof however that the Swiss copied it, and even Dr. Bashford Dean, who led American efforts to develop a combat helmet, argued that the Swiss design is similar but likely not a copy.

The seller of the helmet noted a MilitaryTrader article. Here is the link (I wrote the article):
http://www.militarytrader.com/military-trader-news/american-experimental-helmets-from-wwi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My article does suggest the Swiss may have copied it, but my opinion now is that these are similar. Here is another article I wrote:
http://www.militarytrader.com/military-trader-news/helmet_myths_fables_and_downright_lies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here is what Dean had to say about the matter: "It (the Swiss Model 1918) resembles our helmet so closely that it could be readily mistaken for it – yet there is no doubt whatever that the two models were designed independently on either side of the ocean. American model No. 5, it will be observed, has its side produced farther forward as a protection to the orbit."

My feeling is that if the Swiss version copied it the two would be similar. There were many designs of helmets from 1916 to 1940. So it isn't surprising that many helmets appear the same. This is akin to people saying that the PAGST (Kevlar) helmet the U.S. military developed in the 1970s was based on the German M16/35 designs. There are only so many ways to protect a head. The helmet may have a similar shape but that doesn't mean anyone copied the German design.
 
Adding to Peter's comments, the PAGST helmet, or 'Kevlar' was often referred to as the 'Fritz Helmet' when it was first issued and had a factory applied camouflage, which probably helped foster the rumor that it was directly influenced by the M35. Later, most of us called it a 'Kevlar'. Not a bad helmet unless you were shooting from the prone position, in which case it tended to get pushed over your eyes when the back of it hit the shoulders or nape of the neck. The next model, the ACH, was a bit more functional and still had that 'Germanic' look to it, but had most of the front visor eliminated to make fitting night vision devices easier. One of the people who designed the ACH gave us a lecture about the use and wear of the helmet when we were training up to go to the Middle East. I still have mine and wish I'd have kept the box it came in.
In case anybody cares. :)

:D Ron
 
The kevlar came after my time, but a good friend was an artillery officer stationed in Germany when they were issued. When I asked him what he thought of it, he said “the Germans liked it”. He found it less useful - couldn’t wash or shave out of it - and less comfortable than the M1.
Steve
 
ottodog8 said:
The kevlar came after my time, but a good friend was an artillery officer stationed in Germany when they were issued. When I asked him what he thought of it, he said “the Germans liked it”. He found it less useful - couldn’t wash or shave out of it - and less comfortable than the M1.
Steve
Click to expand...

That's right! The M1's shell was an awesome wash basin. Also, you'd get an Article 15 if you heated water in it... something about the tempering of the steel. Also, turned over, the M1 made a nice little seat in the field. I also saw an interview with a WWII vet who said he used it as a toilet, but that's one I'd never do! (I also think I used 'also' too much in this post)

:D Ron
 
Toilet!!! That's a new one on me!
I shaved out of it, bathed out of it, filled radiators from it, carried water in it, and (if available) even used it as an ice bucket, but I never s--t in it!!!!!

John :o
 
SkipperJohn said:
Toilet!!! That's a new one on me!
I shaved out of it, bathed out of it, filled radiators from it, carried water in it, and (if available) even used it as an ice bucket, but I never s--t in it!!!!!

John :o
Click to expand...

Yeah, no kidding. After all, the WORLD is a man's toilet. This was a WWII US Sherman tanker who was interviewed. Interestingly, a Brit who was asked the same thing said if they hadn't been in action and there were no casings to use, they'd launch a round in the direction of Germany and use the casing... after it cooled. When I was in tanks, I carried an empty Gatoraide bottle for that. Not easy to do, when laying on one's side in the driver's seat of an M1. The M60 was much more user-friendly. :wink:

:D Ron
 
poniatowski said:
SkipperJohn said:
Toilet!!! That's a new one on me!
I shaved out of it, bathed out of it, filled radiators from it, carried water in it, and (if available) even used it as an ice bucket, but I never s--t in it!!!!!

John :o
Click to expand...

Yeah, no kidding. After all, the WORLD is a man's toilet. This was a WWII US Sherman tanker who was interviewed. Interestingly, a Brit who was asked the same thing said if they hadn't been in action and there were no casings to use, they'd launch a round in the direction of Germany and use the casing... after it cooled. When I was in tanks, I carried an empty Gatoraide bottle for that. Not easy to do, when laying on one's side in the driver's seat of an M1. The M60 was much more user-friendly. :wink:

:D Ron
Click to expand...

I was field artillery. We always seemed to have casings, ammo cans, wooden crates, etc.

John :)
 
Along a similar line, I had a friend who served on the eastern front in 1942, his unit was loaded on Iron Annies and shipped to North Africa. He said the flight was so rough that every soldier was air sick and the only thing they had to puke in was their helmets. When they landed, the officer ordered the to put their helmet on and that is what they did, he then did a visual of what the liquid did down the face. He never flew anywhere after that.
 
Gustaf, I bet that was a rather unpopular officer after that!

John, we had powder bags, but a lot of ammo and fuze cans as well. I guess the bag canisters would've worked too. There wasn't always a lot of time to do what one had to do! I even had a tank commander once who chose overlook positions based on where the best 'outhouse' was... you know, a fallen tree, rock or similar. Some of the things that become a priority in the military are things some civilians will never understand. I still enjoy being in a warm bed ready for a FULL night's sleep! (with my wife next to me of course!)

:D Ron
 
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