Support disk outside

joerookery

Well-known member
http://cgi.ebay.com/WWI-IMPERIAL-GERMAN-BAVARIAN-SPIKED-HELMET-PICKELHAUBE_W0QQitemZ230161520991QQihZ013QQcategoryZ13965QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There are more than a few of these.
 
Robert,

I have heard the War Bond story before and while the story makes sense I have yet to be convinced. I cannot in any way explain why they would be on the outside -- yet most of them would have required a paint job of sorts. I do not pretend to know.

As far as the price I think that is what these are going for nowadays. Interesting.
 
Price seams fair for a Bavarian right now.

I beleive these to also be War bond helmets, jsut my opinion. On the inides looks like you can see where the disc was before.

James
 
I think that regardless of which story a person chooses to believe, there is just no way, that a helmet would be accepted by a BA put together incorrectly. That is like having the Reich's Kokarde on the wrong side. It just would not happen.
 
I've often wondered about helmets with the support disc on the outside as well. To my mind I can just see a doughboy taking his trophy apart, stuffing it in his pack for the trip home and then forgetting how to put it back together again whilst he was proudly showing it off to Ma & Pa. Just my 2 cents.

Larry
 
To add to the discussion, these helmets with wrong disk placement only seem to appear in the USA. I have never seen one sold in Germany, or on a period photograph.
 
hello to all

For 6 month ago, I have see one for sell in France. It was a prussian (pickelhaube).
The seller say to me that it comes from an old man living in France.

Best regards

Ludwig
 
Welcome Ludwig! I have no clue regarding this disc on top business. We see it often. In this case my monitor clearly shows that at one time the disc was in its proper position. With the disc outside, it serves no better purpose than the disc inside. It provides no better support for the spike or protection (not that tin gives any protection). I do not see a factory doing this. None of the probe helmets one sees has anything non regulation.
As for the truth of the "War Bond" helmet term this was confirmed by Randy Trawnik when he came up with a cache of WB helmets complete with the pamphlet that advertised them as prizes and showed illustrations. I have a copy of the advert sheet as I believe you also have Joe.
Brian
 
DepotMarks_35.jpg


I do I do! This one courtesy of Minnesota's Slim. I have no problem with the term war bond. I think that is perfectly accurate. The thought is that these war bond helmets were in some cases disassembled and put back together in the wrong order. That is a perfectly reasonable explanation. I am just not convinced that all are explained with this. I have no explanation or reason I have just seen them in Germany ebay. Lots of possible explanations. Why do the rings on the outside often match the lacquer :( color? Am I reading too much into this?
 
Joe did you ask me for permission to post that photo? :D :D :D

Just kidding, the flyer was courtesy of Mr. Trawnik.

James
 
Thanks for the pamphlet scan James. I have no scanner here so I could not post a pic of mine. Ironic that they have labeled the Jaeger shako as Guard du Corps! I am not sure about the theory that these WB helmets were put together once they had reached the US or Canada. I have seen 3 different pics of WB helmets being displayed here in North America. Each of these shows complete helmets. One of these which was from a news paper article showed US troops packing helmets into wooden crates for shipment to the US. Believe it or not if memory serves I think that the caption read that this pic was taken in Italy! I may be crazed here and no Tony I have not been drinling vin rouge but that is what comes to mind. The next one I saw relates to the first as it was a foto of US troops obviously in some sort of dockside warehouse in the US holding helmets in front of open packing crates (perhaps in the old Rankin book??). The third is that foto found in Randy Trawniks' book of a pyramid of complete pickelhauben in Times Square. If anyone has any further pics relating to WB helmets in Canada or the US please post them. Brian
 
Hi Brian

I just looked at my copy of Rankins book and it shows an additional photo of a pile of 20,000 helmets in a Government Warehouse, mostly JzP & Kurassier helmets all with their Pickels in place. I don't know why the AEF would have found the need to expend the man hours to remove the parts from (what would have been to them) useless captured enemy equipment and then reassemble them when the helmets arrived stateside. However having said that, The Russians after the end of WWII went to great lengths to occupy the time of their idle soldiers in having them paint over the metal fittings of captured WWII German K98 ammo pouches!

Likely none of us will ever know for sure the real answer as to why these helmets appear so regularly but they sure are fun to speculate about. I've always leaned to my Doughboy trophy theory, to me it just seems like a normal soldier thing to do.

Larry :)
 
joerookery said:
Why do the rings on the outside often match the lacquer :( color? Am I reading too much into this?

Hey Joe, I believe that mopst of the support discs were enameled black, all of my examples are black and on the inside (that is a whopping sample od three, so I believe that it should be representative of the millinons of helmets out there :)
Gus
 
The vast majority of support discs are black especially on the issued OR's helmets. In fact, I have never seen an issue helmet with anything but a black tin disc. However, once we get into the world of private purchase officer, OYV or whatever, then we find differences. For example support discs made from aluminium. Cruciform supports also in aluminium and black painted tin. The Garde officer helme that I just finished restoring has a black tin disc but a piece has been cut off the circle so that it did not interfere with the nut and screw post which hold the top of the rear spine in place. I also worked on a superb pioneer officer helmet that had an aluminium cruciform support that had elongated arms so that essentially, the entire shell was supported. The front arm was held in place by a split brad that was hidden behind the wappen. The side arms were held by the chin scale brads and the rear arm by the rear spine screw post. Needless to say, with this amount of support, the helmet shell was in excellent condition. I believe I had to re stitch a visor on that one and put on a set of Randy's repro silver scales.
Hessen OR's helmets for those of you who have never held one have a large circular tin disc probably twice the size of the normal issue. The Hessen idea seems to have been to support the cruciform spike base with a larger disc. However, my Hessen reserve officer helmet has an aluminium cruciform spike support. Brian
 
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