Third Class Division; First Class Tailor

Lost Skeleton

Lost Skeleton

Well-known member
Unlike Tony and Dave Mosher, I have very little in the way of cloth, but this M1910 Feldrock provides an interesting subject.

According to Histories of 251 Divisions of the German Army Which Participated in the War (1914-1918), the 202nd Division was rated as third class. More compelling, however, is the statement: When it appeared opposite the United States front on November 3, [1918] the division had been completely shattered. The 411th Regiment, for instance, had only three companies each with a rifle strength of 100 to 110 men.

I'm glad I didn't walk around in this Leutnant's boots.

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Chas.
 
Hi Tony:

When the weather cooperates, I'll try to do this photographic justice. The Rock has a beautiful lining with integral waist belt, and the left breast is prepped with both loops and a machine stitched hole for attaching either a pin back or screw back Iron Cross (it is displayed with my Hansen).

As for the buttons, they are a mixed bag of domed M1915 crown pattern. The strap and cuff buttons are painted. The front and apron buttons are not. However, all appear to be original.

I'm searching for a Feldbinde.

Chas.
 
Chas:

Very nice! I love the beautiful tailoring on the rough wool officer's combat tunic you have here. I have one which appears to have been lined with someone's pajamas in the sleeves! Does it appear that all of the original buttons are M-15 buttons?

Regards

Dave

P.M. me about the Prussian officer's feldbinde you need
 
Hi Dave:

All the large buttons are M15 style domed three-piece construction (front, back, loop) and stamped Hochfeine Qualität on the back. They appear genuine to me. The painted M15 style cuff and strap buttons are open backed

Chas.
 
Chas

Very nice feldrock. Could I ask a question? What color is the lining? (Just trying out something new I learned recently!).


Geo
 
Chas,

Great tunic! Do you think the front buttons have been polished or have never been painted; ie, in their raw state?

On another note, the concept of an Army of 251 Divisions is mind-boggling, when you look at what western armies can field now.

Mike
 
Chas

That is one sweet feldrock, someday, when I grow up, I want one like that!

I was inquiring on another forum regarding Vereinfacte feldrocks, and learned some fascinating things today about what I always consider M1907/10 feldrocks.

I was told that there is an M1913 Landsturm Feldrock, and that M1907/10 was to officially be replaced for all German troops in early 1914 by it. I was told the difference between the two is that the 1907/10 had white upper lining and lower grey lining in skirts, and had removable belt hooks. The M1913 had the grey lining which was slightly simplified, and narrowed the cut in the waist, removed the adjusting straps, and had the belt ramps sewn in. Also I was told that the easiest exterior way of telling the difference between 1907/10 and 1913 is the cuff. The 1907/10 had a button flap that buttoned flush with the edge of the seem. The 1913 added a small loop extension.

There were some photos of the two different linings, but not the exterior of the tunics. Now mind you, I have only seen these thru display cases, and have never been fortunate to see one otherwise. On your superb example , I can see that is has the field grey lining. Am i getting confused over lining color, or is this a M1913 feldrock? The waist appears to be brought in, like the description I was given of the M1913 too?

Geo
 
Hi Mike:

I took a closer look at the breast buttons and found three distinct patterns. The Extra Fein is the first button below the collar and the only one that is not magnetic. The buttons all have traces of finish, but it is consistently weak. I wonder if the button marked A & S stands for F. W. Assmann & Söhne.

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Though my experience is extremely limited, 411 is the highest regiment I've encountered in an officer strap. The numerals, by the way, are also magnetic.

Chas.
 
Wyliecoyote said:
The 1907/10 had a button flap that buttoned flush with the edge of the seem. The 1913 added a small loop extension.
Click to expand...
Hi George:

I can't quite visualize the distinction. Perhaps this photo will help you identify the cuff pattern:

P1010475.jpg


As for the other points you raised, the lining is polished cotton Feldgrau, the waist is tapered, and the belt ramps are sewn in. Both halves of the internal belt are sewn directly to the lining; therefore, it doesn't really function as a cinch.

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I purchased the Feldrock in 2003. Had I known it would be this interesting, I would have posted it sooner.

Chas.
 
Sorry Chas, now I am confusing you!

On the back of the cuff, does it look like the one at the left (M1907/10) which buttons flush, or the one at right (M1913) with the small loop extension?
 
Wylie
the cuff on the left is tucked in the tab is just visible, I might be wrong but I can see the little tab , the button is missing.
mark
 
Hi George:

The back of the cuff looks like this:

P1010476.jpg


How closely would a private purchase Feldrock worn by an officer and the issued Feldrock conform to one another with respect to the M1907/10/13 patterns?

Chas.
 
Chas

Everytime I open up this thread, I can't help but look at all the pics first before I check your reply, just so . . . nice.

Thanks for the extra pics of the cuffs, believe it or not, I have learned a lot from this thread, having known practically zip before hand. In the future I will be better prepared when finding one of these. I would never have realised I would be looking at a private purchase vs. standard issue and all kinds of sparks would have been shooting out of my ears.

Zippy, thanks for clearing that up, was not sure what that was in the pic. So one last question then, on a standard issue M1907/10, the cuff would be like this one in Chas' pic then?

Excellant thread with outstanding photography, thank you so much for sharing this feldrock.

Geo
 
Wyliecoyote said:
// The 1913 added a small loop extension. //
Click to expand...

Is this what you are talking about? This is discussed in Kraus, J. (2004) The german army in the first world war.Verlag Militaria, Vienna p.142.

You should never find an opening cuff on a private-purchase tunic. However, being private purchase, the guy could order what he wanted. So no doubt they exist, but as a rule-of-thumb, opening cuffs are a feature of issued tunics.


fgt01c.jpg
 
Wyliecoyote said:
Is this cuff on a M1913 or an updated M1907?
Click to expand...
1913 version. I realized from this discussion my M1907/10 Feldrock page was out-dated, so I updated it HERE. I also added some uselful things like shoulder straps Corps piping etc.
 
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