16thIrishDivision
New member
What do you make of this Haube?
https://www.weitze.net/detail/20/Th...rie_Regiment_Nr_95_Gotha_um_1910__193420.html
https://www.weitze.net/detail/20/Th...rie_Regiment_Nr_95_Gotha_um_1910__193420.html
Thüringen Pickelhaube
- Thread starter 16thIrishDivision
- Start date
weirdpyramid
New member
I would skip these types of helmets unless it has the proper regt stamps. They are too easy to upgrade from a regular line infantry helmet.
joerookery
Well-known member
Amen
poniatowski
Well-known member
joerookery said:
Hamberg is a beautiful city...
Ron
Adler
New member
Gentlemen, I have to disagree a little bit... Just look at the motto of the bandeau... A normal Prussian EM helmet has the "Mit Gott fur Konig und Vaterland" bandeau, this one has "Mit Gott fur Fuerst und Vaterland" bandeau, which is correct for this helmet...
Here you have some relatives to compare...
Adler
weirdpyramid
New member
Adler said:
Totally agree with you. I guess I should have been more clear. There really isn't anything wrong with this helmet on the surface at all, it all adds up except maybe the odd kokarde. What I meant was that the Thüringen eagle/star(which is a good one) could have been bought as a part piece from Ebay or something and then stuck on a line infantry helmet. For me personally I would just feel really really good about this helmet with some nice matching stamps/markings.
argonne
Well-known member
Another (good?) similar example from Weitze. OJR 91 M91 EM helmet which is looking pretty good, but without any regiment markings too. Some doubts about the cokades???
https://www.weitze.net/detail/15/Oldenburg_Pickelhaube_fuer_Mannschaften_im_Infanterie_Regiment_Nr_91__193415.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Philippe
https://www.weitze.net/detail/15/Oldenburg_Pickelhaube_fuer_Mannschaften_im_Infanterie_Regiment_Nr_91__193415.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Philippe
weirdpyramid
New member
Adler said:
but why? couldn't you have had this helmet missing the state kokarde and wappen and turned it into whatever you want with whatever parts you had that fit the holes in the leather shell?
Line infantry eagles fit line infantry helmet holes, right? soooo, in theory with the right Braunschweig eagle wappen(which has similar loops on the backside) and skull that would fit on a regular line infantry helmet if you wanted, right? provided that you have a original Braunschweig kokarde. There is no difference in the line infantry backside wappen loops?
without proper regt stamps i just cant believe in these helmets 100%
argonne
Well-known member
weirdpyramid said:
It would be like a big "Loto-Gewinn" if it would be like this. Because of different helmet sizes and the lot of helmet manufacturers, it´s almost impossible to make this a rule...really.
Just try that " puzzle game" on your own helmets and you will soon see that´s not matching... :-?
Philippe
weirdpyramid
New member
argonne said:
I played the puzzle game with this helmet below and won. I was missing the hessen spike and wappen. I found the parts on a smaller damaged helmet and swapped them onto this one and they fit perfectly. But we all know that these 115th EM helmets were made by one manufacturer, Martin Mayer, so maybe not so impressive.
Now with helmet sizing and wappens I assume that as the helmet got larger the manufacturer left the holes the same distance so not to have to adjust the spacing on the wappen loops for each helmet size increase, it wouldn't make sense to do it any other way.
I dont have enough helmets in my collection to really prove for sure what I am talking about but it would be interesting to know from some forum members the in between width of the wappen loops/screws on a rarer style Fuerst eagle compared to a Konig wappen.
weirdpyramid
New member
Adler said:
I was talking about the Oldenburg helmet. Surely this could have been a unmarked regular line infantry helmet at some point, right? For me, without any markings to support the wappen it leaves too much doubt and the Oldenburg kokarde looks a little funny, colors look a little off. Plus, Weitze is known for having some good and some bad. I know for a fact that they sometimes move parts around.
argonne
Well-known member
Joe Robinson wrote on his Colonel J´s:
I tried this puzzle game on my own four prussian M15 and my three M95....No chance at all....
Absolutely correct!!
And absolutely the same way to go for units with special wappen plates, for example for seven of eight infantry regiments of the BAX: FR93, IR74, IR77, IR78, OJR91, IR92 and IR164.
But as we all well know, a good leather shell without wappen but nice markings of such a scarce regiment is never cheap. Exactly the same for such a rare wappen to add it on the shell. Where is the gain in comparison to buy an original homogeneous haube?
Philippe
Q. Are the front holes on all Prussian Helmets the same distance apart? For instance if I got a junk Prussian line shell how hard is it to affix lets say an Oldenburg plate to it?
A. No not all holes are the same (one size does not fit all) however, it might match or you could punch additional holes
The holes on Prussian helmets are not the same distance due to the different manufacturers and the different sizes of helmets being made. Some M15 plates are smaller ie. a shorter distance between crown and tail probably to save metal. Older wappen are taller because the crown of the helmet was higher at the front than the M95 and M15 helmets. All of these factors influence the spacing of the grommets and the loops on the back. There are two spacing theories: 1. what they did was go by size of helmet. For instance, certain wappen would probably would fit sizes 54 to 56cm. 2. Each wappen maker had their own distance. I side with theory #2 however, this is a theory that might well be wrong. Do not think that any plate will fit any helmet. One size does not fit all. Julius Jensen apparently made helmets for both XIV and XV Corps so you could find Baden and Prussians with the same distanced grommets.
I actually saw a collector buy a scrap Uhlan helmet and a scrap M15 eagle and they matched first time! A helmet was restored at a fraction of the price. I would never have that kind of luck.
I tried this puzzle game on my own four prussian M15 and my three M95....No chance at all....
weirdpyramid said:
Absolutely correct!!
And absolutely the same way to go for units with special wappen plates, for example for seven of eight infantry regiments of the BAX: FR93, IR74, IR77, IR78, OJR91, IR92 and IR164.
But as we all well know, a good leather shell without wappen but nice markings of such a scarce regiment is never cheap. Exactly the same for such a rare wappen to add it on the shell. Where is the gain in comparison to buy an original homogeneous haube?
I totally agree. In this case, I would 100% trust such a helmet with original holes and original soldered loops/screw posts. But I would rather spend more money and buy one with regimental markings. It´s only a matter of preference, how you want to collect and how much you want to spend.Adler said:
I don´t think so.weirdpyramid said:
Philippe