joerookery
Well-known member
Some information on the writing on each of the soldiers jackets.
Tientsin 1905
- Thread starter peter h
- Start date
chrispaulodale
Active member
Back to that mysterious Shanghai photo. Thanks for getting a translation on the characters. Very interesting that it says 2nd Battalion, can there really have been two whole battalions of these men?
Over on Uniforms of the World, Sean said-
"Lovely photo. I think there are two alternatives. Firstly Imperial Chinese troops with an Austrian officer instructor. Or a gendarmerie force raised by the Austrians to police their sections/embassy grounds in China. As I have no knowledge of Chinese I cannot comment on the unit title stitched to the front of the jackets.
Interestingly they appear to carry Mauser 88 rifles and German style equipment, supporting the Imperial alternative.
I'm sure someone knows more on this than I can surmise.
Great post, thanks, I love this sort of thing"
http://uotw.heavenforum.com/t775-shanghai-municipal-police-or-volunteer-corps#2618
I hadn't considered the Austrian option, but now I come to think of it, those scalloped pockets, kepi... he is looking a bit KuK...
More thoughts?
Oh, and thank you Peter for more photos. I've put that first one on the Helmet Covers part of this forum, just because of that rare "5" on the covers.
http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4294&start=50
The second one shows a soldier from probably the 5th or 6th Inf regt as he's got the field cap instead of the straw hat with the old Blue Litewka.
The last one shows a soldier from the East Asian Occupation Brigade. The interesting point here is his MP armband.
Great photos all of them!
Cheers
Chris
Over on Uniforms of the World, Sean said-
"Lovely photo. I think there are two alternatives. Firstly Imperial Chinese troops with an Austrian officer instructor. Or a gendarmerie force raised by the Austrians to police their sections/embassy grounds in China. As I have no knowledge of Chinese I cannot comment on the unit title stitched to the front of the jackets.
Interestingly they appear to carry Mauser 88 rifles and German style equipment, supporting the Imperial alternative.
I'm sure someone knows more on this than I can surmise.
Great post, thanks, I love this sort of thing"
http://uotw.heavenforum.com/t775-shanghai-municipal-police-or-volunteer-corps#2618
I hadn't considered the Austrian option, but now I come to think of it, those scalloped pockets, kepi... he is looking a bit KuK...
More thoughts?
Oh, and thank you Peter for more photos. I've put that first one on the Helmet Covers part of this forum, just because of that rare "5" on the covers.
http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4294&start=50
The second one shows a soldier from probably the 5th or 6th Inf regt as he's got the field cap instead of the straw hat with the old Blue Litewka.
The last one shows a soldier from the East Asian Occupation Brigade. The interesting point here is his MP armband.
Great photos all of them!
Cheers
Chris
joerookery
Well-known member
They look the same almost but why would there be a European officer in the Imperial troops?
Even though the photo studio states processed Shanghai it might be somewhere else,even Tientsin.After the Boxer Rebellion was crushed a lot of patroling continued around Peking as well.Perhaps an allied officer wanted to pose with some Manchu troops?His sleevebands also indicate navy?
I found this photo on that Chinese forum as well.Every year the foreign military attaches at Peking posed together for a group photo.This was taken in May 1914,within 3 months war would follow.Note lone German.
I found this photo on that Chinese forum as well.Every year the foreign military attaches at Peking posed together for a group photo.This was taken in May 1914,within 3 months war would follow.Note lone German.
joerookery
Well-known member
joerookery
Well-known member
Wyliecoyote
New member
Oldest era photo I remember seeing with this type "overseas" cap before Joe.
chrispaulodale
Active member
See the http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5600 thread for these sides caps in 1898...
Cheers,
Chris
Cheers,
Chris
chrispaulodale
Active member
Nice picture Peter. I found a very similar one at WikiMedia Commons (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graf_Waldersee_inspiziert_die_Italiener_1901.jpg ) with Waldersee inspecting the Italians.
If the Italians are number 3 and the Americans are number 4. I wonder if there's a series of them with each of the eight nation alliance?
Cheers
Chris
If the Italians are number 3 and the Americans are number 4. I wonder if there's a series of them with each of the eight nation alliance?
Cheers
Chris
joerookery
Well-known member
Chris,
Looking at your website–is this guy from the East Asia infantry?
ps998 by joerookery, on Flickr
Looking at your website–is this guy from the East Asia infantry?
ps998 by joerookery, on Flickr
chrispaulodale
Active member
Yes, Joe, that's a great photo. He's from the East Expeditionary Corps/Occupation Brigade in about 1901.
He's wearing the field grey uniform authorised 9/2/1901. Strangley though he's still wearing the 1900 straw hat, these were being discarded and replaced by kahki peaked caps as early as August 1900, it's rare to see them still worn alongside the field grey uniform and they were not included in the Feb 1901 regualtions. Interestingly this man's hat has only the large imperial cockade and no state cockade below it. The 1900 regualtions had a state cockade below the imperial cockade, the Feb1901 regualtions had no state cockade.
Also notice the equipment, grey leather individual ammunition pouches looking simialr to the army's later 1909 design. And a dragoon belt buckle... all this was regualtion for the East Asian troops from Feb 1901.
Most of my information on this topic comes from-
"Uniformierung und Austrüstung der Ostasiatischen Truppen des Deutschen Reiches 1900-1909" by Jürgen Kraus in Zeitschrift für Heereskunde Nos 375, 382 and 389 (unsure of last edition number)
Hope that helps,
Cheers
Chris
He's wearing the field grey uniform authorised 9/2/1901. Strangley though he's still wearing the 1900 straw hat, these were being discarded and replaced by kahki peaked caps as early as August 1900, it's rare to see them still worn alongside the field grey uniform and they were not included in the Feb 1901 regualtions. Interestingly this man's hat has only the large imperial cockade and no state cockade below it. The 1900 regualtions had a state cockade below the imperial cockade, the Feb1901 regualtions had no state cockade.
Also notice the equipment, grey leather individual ammunition pouches looking simialr to the army's later 1909 design. And a dragoon belt buckle... all this was regualtion for the East Asian troops from Feb 1901.
Most of my information on this topic comes from-
"Uniformierung und Austrüstung der Ostasiatischen Truppen des Deutschen Reiches 1900-1909" by Jürgen Kraus in Zeitschrift für Heereskunde Nos 375, 382 and 389 (unsure of last edition number)
Hope that helps,
Cheers
Chris
joerookery
Well-known member
Thanks Chris!–Never easy always has contradictions!