Tientsin 1905

The contradictions are the fun part aren't they?
Cheers
Chris

PS Joe I just had a look at your Flickr account. You've got some great photos there!

One caption, caught my attention- PS15 "NCOs of a unit in China 1907"-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/joerookery/5221144174/in/set-72157625375396481/

They look like Schutztruppe DSWA in khaki uniforms, date could be right.... East Asian NCOs of this date all had a single chevron and Seebtallion units did not use chevrons for NCO ranks below Feldwebel as I understand it...
 
One caption, caught my attention- PS15 "NCOs of a unit in China 1907"-
Click to expand...

Thanks I'll fix it!

I got a translation of the Chinese flags from a Flickr member.

ps744 by joerookery, on Flickr

The biggest twin words on the flag are "Yang" which is the surname of Chinese.It should belong to the important officer Yang who commanded the troop.
The right word is "Qian"乾 which means the sky or Yang,father,male,positive,head,horse.Relative ly, Kun 坤 is Yin,earth,mother,negative,bingy,cow.
The left graphy is Tai Chi Diagram the symbol of the universe which has eight directions could give the power,energy,courage and luck to the army of boxer.
Having finished the military affairs study in Berlin and Krupp Arsenal in Essen in 1889,1890, my great grandpa(25 years old) went back China. As the general headquarter of the Right Army he(35 years old) followed Yuan shikai who was the Governor of Shandong Province and suppressed of Boxers Rebellion in Shandong,Hebei and Henan in 1899,1900 for Emperor Guangxu and the Empress Dowager Cixi of the Qing dynasty. Unfortunately,my great grandma (33 years old)died in Jinan of Shandong in 1900. After that my great grandpa married to the daughter of Yuan shikai(the first president of China in 1912 and the emperor of 88 days in 1915 ).
Click to expand...
 
Wow, that's great info! We're used to hearing from Germans whose grandparents served in the German army but not hearing from the Chiese descendants... great work!

Has this Flickr member got photos of his ancestor?

Cheers
Chris
 
Chris and everyone,

You absolutely absolutely absolutely need to see these pictures. You often see pictures of Germans in China but there are pictures here of Chinese in Germany–much of it identified–very important little piece of little-known history direct from China!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shushutuan/sets/72157626150401891/
 
Thanks for that link but it says that its a private album and I don't have permission to view it...

The back of the postcard seems to say Kaunus 1907 to me, so yes, DSWA.

Cheers
Chris
 
Great photo again, Joe.

These chaps are from the East Asian Ocupation Brigade. They are wearing the new field grey uniform introduced in 1904. Note it differs from the 1901 tunic (seen in the photo above with the straw hat) in that this new tunic has pleated pockets with a slightly pointed flap. They're wearing the grey felt Pickelhaube with imperial eagle.

The chap on the left is from one of the two Infantry Regts remaining in China by 1904, the one on the right, from his carbine and shoulder belt is a trooper from the mounted infantry squadron "Ostasiatische Eskadron Jäger zu Pferd".

Keep posting these great photos!

Cheers
Chris
 
Chris,

The fellow on the right in the last photo is wearing an MG drag-strap and the M1901 machine-gunner's single clip cartridge pouches.

Chip

 
Hi Chip,

Machine gunner? I must admit that was a possibility that I'd not thought of. You might well be right. I haven't any information on the machine gunners of the East Asian army, not sure how many if any they had. The lack of spurs would hint that he's not mounted, at least not on the day of the photo.

However the East Asian mounted troops had very similar ammunition pouches, worn on the belt or on a cross shoulder belt issued as of 1901. Also the cross shoulder belt in Joe's photo looks too narrow for a MG drag strap (I might well be wrong here) though it does have a clip at the end which looks like it could hold an MG....

Thanks for bringing this point up. Do any other readers have info on East Asian MG units? Is that a normal width for an MG drag strap?

Cheers
Chris

PS Here's a photo from the Peter Klein Collection showing an East Asian mounted trooper with the cross shoulder strap and ammunition pouches-

Reiter%20China2.jpg
 
On the same topic take a look at this one.

ps1505 by joerookery, on Flickr

Again based on Chris's website I listed this guy as Cavalryman from the East Asian Cavalry (Reiter) Regiment. What do you think?
 
Thanks Brett, glad to see the site is of use... the interesting bit there is the early pattern equipment without buttons... well, interesting to the likes of us anyway! Also the use of an NCO Troddel by a Gefreiter?

Cheers
Chris
 
chrispaulodale said:
Well spotted, I wonder if this was just in training and if he was given his K98 before going to China?
Click to expand...

I believe there is a photo of these fellows getting issued Kar 88's in one of the photos on AHF. So would not be surprised if they took them along.
 
@ Chris, I'm glad you like the DWSA CDV. As a fellow bayonet enthusiast, you can imagine I was very excited to see this one pop up. As if he's really showing off that belt. Too bad the quality isn't good enough to see the stripes on the strap of the troddel more clearly.
Regarding the rank buttons / NCO knot issue. One thing I've learned from the photographs I have seen, is that the troddel is not always what you would expect to see. I have a CDV of a soldier with Bavarian decorations and either a Prussian or Saxon NCO troddel tied to his (Prussian) Pionier Fashinenmesser 1871. The piece has got me puzzled. I won't post the full size one to keep things on topic here, but here's a link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paranoid_womb/5891299442/in/set-72157627019671516" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Something a bit more on topic then:
I found this item where I least expected it, in a Naval museum in Malta. On this silk flag, the Reichsadler is surrounded by Kaiserliche Kriegsflagge and Staatsvlaggen. It was brought back from China by a Naval officer, he had received this as a gift.
6061814430_d8d7a52fb8_b.jpg
 
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