Too good to be true ?

Truce1914

Truce1914

Member
Gentlemen, this is currently on German ebay. I have copied and studied the images carefully. The detailing to the Wappen is fine, but then again that can be said of good galvano Wappen of today's quality. What is concerning me is the strange colours of the plate and the pure brass high points. Does anyone have an opinion please ---

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pickelhaube-Braunschweig-IR92-1-o-2-Batallion-ca-1909/292540837986?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
Have doubts on the strange collor of the plate never seen that before on a original plate
Also the patina on the inner plate concerns me
The one thing i have learned over the years of collecting is that if you having doubts walk away from it
The liner has even shrunken that mutch it left a gap and broke the stitching ?
I could be wrong here but i wouldend do it if i where you ,even the price its currently at is not even close to whats it wurth

Jonas
 
I believe that the Wappen may have been lacquered. They were lacquered originally, but it did not generally discolor like this one. New lacquer chips and turns dark.
My thoughts:
It is an enlisted helmet so polishing the Wappen to remove lacquer would not devalue it.
It is an extremely rare version.
The helmet itself, and all of the fittings, appear original.
If it is cheap enough, I would go for it.

One of three things can happen.
You will get an original, extremely rare helmet that needs a little TLC.
You will get an original helmet that needs an original Wappen.
The price will spike in the last eight seconds to $3000.00.

John :)
 
The rear spine is a modern replacement, the tang on the underside of the rear visor is not proper. Soldered brads holding the spine on are too wide and shiny. No slider vent on the spine. Also, all of the split brads holding the spike base down are repros....too shiny. Wappen looks to have been chemically darkened to me using some sort of liquid which turns the brass a brown colour as seen here. The liner is an M15 style (no black dye) and is from another helmet. Why?? Because these leather shells shrink inward over the decades, they do not expand leaving a gap in the liner. There are way too many issues here! :thumbsdown:
 
I agree with Brian. But rather than laquer they used shellac .

He is right about the liner as well .

The plate originality may be in question but there is no doubt that this is a parts helmet.
 
b.loree said:
The rear spine is a modern replacement, the tang on the underside of the rear visor is not proper. Soldered brads holding the spine on are too wide and shiny. No slider vent on the spine. Also, all of the split brads holding the spike base down are repros....too shiny. Wappen looks to have been chemically darkened to me using some sort of liquid which turns the brass a brown colour as seen here. The liner is an M15 style (no black dye) and is from another helmet. Why?? Because these leather shells shrink inward over the decades, they do not expand leaving a gap in the liner. There are way too many issues here! :thumbsdown:
Click to expand...

Generally I agree with Brian, but I do have a couple of issues here. I'm not certain that the rear spine is a repro, and I would appreciate any enlightenment. Model 1891 rear spines did not have the familiar slot where it attaches to the rear visor, some did, but not all (See Tony's M91). Also the vented spine was introduced with Model 1895, so a Model 1891 would not have a vent. The advertisement says it's a 1909, but I don't see any date markings in the photos. The attachment nut is questionable. I cannot tell from the photos if the spike has a closing vent or not. A Model 91 should have a spike that turns and closes the vent holes. Looking at the photos I would not think that the liner had been replaced. I believe that the helmet had been blocked at some point to try to make it larger. Judging by the color of the dome, the gap in the liner, the bulge in the front visor, and the ripple in the shell (seen from the side photo), I think somebody tried to stretch it. I didn't pay attention to the un-dyed liner and that is a good point. In a couple of the photos the split brads look quite shiny, but in others the zinc washers and brads look darker. I passed that off as a photo issue. I don't know about this one, but for 104 Euro I would give it the benefit of the doubt. You could part it out if all else fails.

John :)
 
I just got home and had the opportunity to enlarge the photos and really check this out.
I have changed my mind. Please disregard my previous comments.
I believe that this is a parts helmet. The spike does not appear to rotate, so the spine is not proper. It may be original, but not correct for this helmet.
I have to admit that I became intrigued with this helmet and hated to see someone pass it up, but now, at home, I have had an epiphany.
I looked at the sellers other listings and each helmet he has offered is questionable, some ridiculously so.
If I had seen that every other helmet offered was good, I would have considered this one, but now --- no way.
You should find something else to do for the next sixteen hours while this auction is running and just let this one pass.

John
 
b.loree said:
The rear spine is a modern replacement, the tang on the underside of the rear visor is not proper. Soldered brads holding the spine on are too wide and shiny. No slider vent on the spine. Also, all of the split brads holding the spike base down are repros....too shiny. Wappen looks to have been chemically darkened to me using some sort of liquid which turns the brass a brown colour as seen here. The liner is an M15 style (no black dye) and is from another helmet. Why?? Because these leather shells shrink inward over the decades, they do not expand leaving a gap in the liner. There are way too many issues here! :thumbsdown:
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree with your opinion. I have the same doubts about the originality of this subject
 
Thanks to all, I think we nailed this one! A replaced liner also means that both visors have been removed and restitched. I am sure that if I had a chance to actually work on this or take it apart we would find other replacements.
 
Hi. This seller has listed more similarly rare pieces including a 94.R. pickelhaube. Again looks OK, but I just get a nasty feeling that the plate when taken off may turn out to be a galvano copy. Colour of the eagle does look good put the staining or patina I am not so sure about. Also the stamps to the rear look a little odd.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WK1-Pickelhaube-Kammerst%C3%BCck-1915-Th%C3%BCringen-Mannschaften/292604045245?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WK1-Pickelhauben-Aufsatz-L%C3%B6we-Neusilber-verb%C3%B6det-hohl-Fundus/292603937550?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
He also has a so called H R 15 officer
IMO 100 % bad
but it has bids
a piece of fur with an H R 15 plate on it
and who knows if the plate is real ?
Steve McFarland
 
The IR 94 appears to have been put together from parts. The spike pins have washers even though there is a mark on the helmet's leathers from a reinforcement plate. The rear spine doesn't match to the marks in the leather of the visor. Spike base condition looks like it was chewed on, but pin head look new (different types of brass). Wappen almost looks like it was plated.
 
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