Uhlan

M

Muth25

New member
I know nothing about these felt uhlan top hats, I was wondering if it looked alright to some of the experts on this forum. Sure does look cool.

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Gustaf said:
I will bet Tony has something to say about this
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I do. But about the helmet not that silly spelling nonsense. This helmet was actually purchased by my friend Peter and brought here for a look. I took about a dozen photographs of it. There were some very good things about it, such as much of the cotton thread had rotted from age and the leather also showed signs of age and dry rot. Two things that are very difficult to replicate convincingly. The overall characteristics of construction were similar to the Luckenwalder Hutfabriken example at Rastatt example on p.385 of Baer's book but the Ratsatt one is very well-made and has the Tschapka shape. The main difference was it was sloppy in shape.

My friend also bought one of those UK ones being sold as replicas so we could compare. The replica one looked "sort of" the same but it was very sloppy. Thick felt poorly died and the shape of the skull and visor is also rather "off" plus many other features which were obviously fake. Overall, it was junk. But it "looked" the same, especially to an unexperienced collector.

So what it boiled down to, is that these Filz Tschapka are very simple in construction and very easy to replicate. So much so, that I returned the one I had which was identical to the Rastatt example and Peter returned his, the one for sale in this thread. The reason? It is too much money to invest in something when there are replicas being made that are so similar. It will always cast doubt on the originals making them difficult to sell.
 
Thats a shame that they are so hard to detect, are the felt haubes sketchy as well or are they safe to buy from a know dealer. Thanks again gentlemen
 
There are faked felt shakos out there but these can be easily detected because they have a leather re enforcing strip stitched to the rim of the helmet. The liner leather is also not right because it is dyed on both sides. There were also stories of a series of fake felt infantry helmets with grey fittings and a metal scroll with 22 punched into it for wappen. These were supposed to have been worn during the Balkan campaign. I handled one of these.....it looked too good even though it seemed as if someone had taken muddy water and applied it to the inside. Frankly, I do not know whether it was fake or not. I believe that Col Joe has an original picture of a soldat wearing one of these helmets. Brian
 
It is too much money to invest in something when there are replicas being made that are so similar
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Hi Tony,
Am I to understand that this is a real item, and it was returned because the fakes are too good? I realize that the fakes do drive the prices of the real ones to a degree, the Russian Adrians are a good example, but the reason that the Rusky helmet prices are depressed is because people do not want to lay out money for something that might be fake (most are sold over the internet), but I am having a hard time understanding the quality of a good fake affecting the price of a real helmet that is held in the hand. As a collector, to find a real item that is surrounded by many fakes, it seems to be a chance to get the real thing. I am a poor businessman, when I invest in an historical item, I do not think "what will it be worth in a few years" but "what history does it hold" Just my two bits, but I think we are letting the fakers win.
Best wihses
Gus
 
Tony,

After handling this exact helmet what was your final verdict - genuine or fake?

I am very wary of anything from this seller after reading Gary's posts over the previous months.

Mike
 
flasheart said:
After handling this exact helmet what was your final verdict - genuine or fake?
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Mike, I honestly don't know. It was weird, we had three levels of felt Tschapka here. The very high quality one that I had that had a correct Tschapka shape, the low quality one that is on ebay now with the flat back and the high sewn visor, and the cheesy junk fake one from the UK with the flat back and the high sewn visor. The problem was, they all are very simple to make, and I became very uncomfortable with the one on ebay right now. The construction and shape and other features were too close to the poor quality fake one from the UK. My only explanation, was that it could have been an old liner and original parts placed in a new shell. Or, maybe it was good and I was just being paranoid. I can't answer you if it was good or not. Suffice it to say that Peter (and myself) both decided to send these back to the dealers as fast as we could. He still has the fake one and will be selling it as a fake.

Gustaf said:
//I am having a hard time understanding the quality of a good fake affecting the price of a real helmet that is held in the hand. // As a collector, to find a real item that is surrounded by many fakes, it Just my two bits, but I think we are letting the fakers win.
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With all due respect Gus, that is easy to say when you are not the one holding a $1700 Tschapka that you know you may never be able to sell thanks to the jerks making replicas for profit. So I decided to wash my hands of it and put my money in something less suspect. What it boils down to, is that I cannot afford to lose $1700 as I worked hard for that money. Some day I will have to sell it and if it will be a problem, I'd rather not have it here. Ersatz Filz Pickelhaubes are a different story, as I have handled and owned scores of these. But in this case, my entire expereince was limited to three examples. One I felt was original, one that was probably (?) good but perhaps not (?) and the fake one.
 
Tony,I can accept your reply, $1700 is a bunch of money, and it may be that the price of some of these helmets is too high due to investors. Maybe the fakes will help fill holes in collections of people who have no interest in history and leave the real ones at a more reasonable price for the collectors who are willing to do the research. I guess I have already made a similar decision, regarding Feldgrau Hosen, there are many fakes out there, and some are very good, so I have been reluctant to lay out the bucks to acquire an item that is mostly covered in a display. Recently, a pair of Feldgrau Hosen sold on ebay as original for nearly $800, I do believe that they were original, but the blured marking seemed to be Danish. The point of my rambling is that we are dealing with a market price structure in the collecting field and many cfactors play into it.
Best wishes
Gus
 
Yes, it's very difficult to detect a good felt tschapka and a fake but this one seems to be correct and not very expensive (about 1000 US dollars for a direct sale). As Tony says, it's very similar to the model made by the "Verkaufskontor Lückenwalder Hutfabriken". I bought one with prussian field grey fittings to this seller twoo weeks ago and I'm still waiting the packet... some new pics soon... :lol:

You can also see an interesting but very expensive model to this site:

http://waterloomilitaria.com/Category/Subcategories/product.asp?id_no=12&cat_no=20&cat_parent=20&cat_name=Helmets%2FHead+Dress

Maxime
 
a replica no doubt ,these are good and quite big in size but not worth that much no where near about 25% of asking price
 
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