US Helmet Eagle

kaiserzeit

kaiserzeit

New member
G'day everyone!

It's the old saw: The more you learn, the more you want to know. Every now and then I wander off and look at other helmet types - today's tangent is 19th C. US dress helmets.

I am trying to sort out the deep inner meaning of the various US helmet eagles.

There is the fairly common type, I think it is designated M1881:

m1881-helmet-plate.jpg


and then there is the earlier, wide-swept wing type:

US-M1872eagle.jpg


I think this one is designated M1872.

If I have the symbolism worked out correctly, the position of the eagle's head tells you whether it is a peacetime (facing the laurel branch) or wartime (facing the arrows) badge. Have I got that right?

Also, do I have them named correctly? I have encountered some confusing references when I cruise the Net.

If someone has a spare or knows where I can get one of the wide-swept wing birds (original or repro) I would appreciate the lead.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers,

Laurie
 
Laurie,
The
'spread wing eagle seen here actually first appeared on an 1832 Shako.
wappen1842.jpg

The Company of Military Historians were supposed to have had an article coming out about the time the old forum. I don't subscribe so I don't know if it appeared in their Journal. A historian named De Queseda was writing it.

De Queseda believed, and I think he is right, that there were two breeds of Us spiked helmets. Those influenced by Germany and those influenced by England. The cork 1872 pattern types had nothing to do with Prussia but rather England. The leathter types used by some militia were patterned after German helmets.

"The early eagle on the M1842 helmet is actually a Model 1832 Shako Plate. I have a few examples of this plate including dug versions from Second Seminole War era sites. It is possible this piece could date to the Civil War and Reconstruction eras. I have this style helmet illustrated in Civil War and Post Civil War era military suppliers catalogs"
Click to expand...

I have an article at http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/AmericanPickelhaube.htm

There was a big American haube auction last year and an example at SOS.
 
Laurie: You are correct on the 1881 designation for the eagle with the E. Pluribus Unum banner in its beak. I do not believe the wide winged eagle is a model 1872. This is the Model 1872 U.S. eagle front plate for cork helmets.

There were a series of wide winged eagle front plates worn between 1821 and 1832. However, these plates have the eagle's head facing to the left. Your wide winged plate may be from a state militia.

Reservist1
 
these plates have the eagle's head facing to the left.
Click to expand...
Great topic! I agree "US Militia helmets but not sure of all dates. Not all wide wings face left.
AmericanPickelhaube_01.jpg

AmericanPickelhaube_21.jpg


Is it a "war eagle" flipping? Who knows. There is another rank insignia precedent. A bit of football trivia ---- Auburn University's team name is the --- War Eagles.
 
Extremely interesting guys! I have seen the Brit style cork and cloth US helmets but absolutely never these leather ones. Joe any possibility of seeing interior shots just to compare the liners used?? I had no clue that the US had copied the german M42 so early! Brian
 
Joe: the Auburn University football team is the Tigers. "War Eagle" is a mascot. I think, but am not positive, that your German style spike hlemet with the right facing eagle is New York State Militia from about the 1890's.
 
the Auburn University football team is the Tigers. "War Eagle" is a mascot.
Click to expand...
OOOps wrong again! Tiger I should have known!
Brian there is an article at http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/AmericanPickelhaube.htm
AmericanPickelhaube_16.jpg

More pictures of my two at
http://www.pickelhauben.net/pickelhaube/1842American.htm
http://www.pickelhauben.net/pickelhaube/AmericanOR.htm

Most of the US leathers I haave seen were made in NY by Deeken.
AmericanPickelhaube_22.jpg

Very German like but sort of Kmart quality. Cheap is a good descriptor. The Officer War Eagle one appears to be German made. It is very nice and MINT.

There is no liner in my M42 American. Spike is like it was made by the Tin Man in Wizard of Oz. Very primitive.
liner.jpg

right.jpg

AmericanPickelhaube_18.jpg
 
Thank you Joe and R1 for your excellent input. I had no idea that these birds went all the way back to the 1820's.

Do you know of any reenactor suppliers or anyone else who might have one for sale?

Cheers,

Laurie
 
This is a topic I have a question about. How can you tell the difference in Army service brach ,ie infantry ,artilery ,and Cavalry helmet plates and side buttons? We have one of the cork helmets donated to oue unit museum and it has no cording front plate ,it has the spike base and plume for Arttillery . It has had added a repop french style chinscales and had an Imperial German Dragoon plate added .
Thanks for info
Mark
 
Infantry plates have crossed rifle on the plates and side buttons, artillary cannons with the matching buttons, cavalry has sabers and matching buttons. F. Burgess & Co. Military Saddles has those eagles, but for some reason their site is down. They are located in N.J.. I have purchased a snowflake pattern campaign hat from them , cavalry gauntlets and a plume holder. The work was outstanding and so close to an original snowflake it made me nervous. The plume holder even weighed the same as an original. I have seen their 1881 felt plumed helmets being sold on ebay by bogus dealers as originals. They look that good, but are marked "F. Burgess & Co.". Corky
 
Hi Corky,

Thank you for your input. I was able to get in touch with the guy at F Burgess&Co. He advised that he has been quite ill and has not been operating his business for awhile, now, and will be on "sabbatical" for about six months.

He was kind enough to remind me of another company that is good for a lot of older US insiginia and uniform accoutrements:

S&S Firearms, of Glendale, New York.

Their selection is quite extraordinary, if you are looking for any bits to fill out a 19th C. display, I would check them out first:

http://www.ssfirearms.com

Happy collecting, All!

Cheers,

Laurie
 
joerookery said:
Great topic! I agree "US Militia helmets but not sure of all dates. Not all wide wings face left.
Click to expand...

Joe--
Great stuff. Where were these helmets used? And when did the US stop using the leather variety?

I have the white summer version, which only unoffically had the spike and eagle. Weren't the white, and the later tan ones made in England?
 
Hey Joe--
Here is the exact location where you helmet was made:
map.jpg


I'm not sure what is there today. Probably some high-tech company, or expensive lofts. This part of town is just on the edge of SOHO (South of Houston -- pronounced "house-ton" in NYC). Chinatown is a couple blocks south, and what is left of Little Italy is to the east. This isn't all that far from Five Points, as in "Gangs of New York."
 
Joe, I think you had better send that M42 up to me for a little polishing and TLC. However, there is an excellent chance that it would only have a one way ticket accross the border!!!! Keep this thread alive guys, I am learning a great deal. Brian
 
Here is my summer helmet. I wonder how much of this is "unofficial" use of the spike and plate by the officers and troopers... and how much is Bannerman's doing? This is 4th Artillery.

american_pith_big1.jpg


And here is my tan M1881 helmet. No eagle however.
american_m81_big1.jpg
 
Alex has yet to publish thearticle. I will post more when I get info. There was one of these leather helmets at SOS. Last year a Uhlan tsapskaf rom RI sold. I bought my 2 from Randy and theyare wonderful!
 
joerookery said:
Alex has yet to publish thearticle. I will post more when I get info. There was one of these leather helmets at SOS. Last year a Uhlan tsapskaf rom RI sold. I bought my 2 from Randy and theyare wonderful!
Click to expand...

Those are pretty amazing helmets. That's the great thing about helmets. There is also one more out there!
 
One more thought, if these American helmets pre-date the Franco-Prussian War, then it adds a bit of mystery. Most references attribute the use of spiked helmets because of the admiration of the Prussians in the Franco-Prussian War.

So what the Americans to adopt the spiked helmets earlier? :-?

The British sun helmets, also known as Foreign Service Helmets, showed up in use in India in the 1860s I believe, and were widely adopted later. No doubt the Prussian influence carried over to the British adding the spikes on their helmets, but this still doesn't explain those earlier American helmets.
 
What about the heavy influx of German immigrants into the United States during the 19th Century? It is known that many Germans served in the US Army, they could have influenced uniforms for militia units that were in areas that had a large German population.
 
Pickelhauben were introduced in Brazil at that time of the War of Paraguay (War of the Triple Aliance) through German Officers that came to give instructions of military techniques. Who know the same happened in the USA?
 
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