US M1 Helmet - WW2 or Vietnam Era?

[RON]

I know this Forum isn't technically the place for non-imperial German items but I thought of posting this helmet anyway as I know little about US Headgear but many of you guys surely do.

It's obviously an M1 shell with a very damaged liner due to poor storage--it was in a relative's damp attic for close to a decade!--but I don't know much more. I can't tell for instance if it's WWII era or more recent (e.g. Vietnam or later)...

If I could get a crash course on this helmet: 'fixed bale' vs. 'loose (?) bale', how to recognize an officer model from an OR (was it only the adding of the rank to the front or more?), size of shell (I've including some rough measurements), etc., that would be great!

 

[Peter_Suciu]

There are probably forums that provide this information... I actually belong to some of those.

The term "fixed bail" is really one of collectors, but it is commonly used. The army nor helmet designers used the term "fixed bail," and I can't really tell you where it started. The early WWII helmet (M1) had a welded chinstrap loop, and this was replaced in 1943 with a hinged chinstrap loop. This allowed the loop to help hold in the liner, but also lessened the tension so that the welds wouldn't break. The early helmets also had a stainless steel rim cover, which changed later as stainless steel didn't hold the paint. The seam changed from front to back with this change.

But it is really the paint that is the issue. The World War II helmets were used post-war but repainted for Korea. The M1 helmet had a long run, plus there were NATO versions made for Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, etc.

There are not multiple sizes as there were with German steel helmets. It was technically was one size fits all, and there is no difference between an officer's helmet and enlisted helmets.

It is a long and complex subject and not so easily explained in a single post but I hope this helps.

 

[RON]

Thanks Peter, that's quite a good start...

I see that my helmet has welded chinstrap loops; would this be enough to say the shell at least is a pre-1943 version?

 

[ebeeby]

Ron - The fixed bales make this WWII. Looks like the strap is tan which is also WWII. They became more green as time went on. The liner looks tan also which would be correct. There should be a makers mark dead center of the dome inside the liner (Firestone and Westinghouse made perhaps the bulk but there were many makers). The color of the inside of the liner, the color of the webbing and the wear spots on the outside of the liner plus paint color all determine the correctness.

Can't get a good feel for the paint on the steel pot from your photos.

I think the book on these is called "Steel Pots" , is out of print and runs around $100 now.


Eric

 

[Peter_Suciu]

Ron - The fixed bales make this WWII. Looks like the strap is tan which is also WWII. They became more green as time went on. The liner looks tan also which would be correct. There should be a makers mark dead center of the dome inside the liner (Firestone and Westinghouse made perhaps the bulk but there were many makers). The color of the inside of the liner, the color of the webbing and the wear spots on the outside of the liner plus paint color all determine the correctness.

Can't get a good feel for the paint on the steel pot from your photos.

I think the book on these is called "Steel Pots" , is out of print and runs around $100 now.

Given the color it could be a WWII shell reissued.

Chris Armold wrote Steel Pots and is working on a new edition now, but as Eric noted... it is out of print. $100 would be an excellent price for the book. I've seen them much higher.

 

[reservist1]

The seam of the rim on your helmet is in the rear. The seam in the rim was moved from the front of the helmet shell to the rear sometime in late 1944. See Steel Pots The History of America's Steel Combat Helmets by Chris Arnold, page 92.

This is unusual as the fixed welded on chinstrap bale was changed in 1943 to a hinged bale. If the chinstrap bale on your helmet does not protrude slightly below the lower edge of the helmet, the helmet may not be of American manufacture.

Reservist1

 

[RON]

This turned-out to be even more interesting than I thought!

Peter, you're probably right about the re-painting as this helmet was definitely used all the way through the 80s.

Eric, there's no maker's mark to be seen anywhere... In the center of the dome inside the (plastic) liner, there's only a circle. And speaking of liners, why were some models with light & dark brown stripes and others plain green like mine?

R1, when putting the helmet down on a flat surface, it seems the bales do protrude but very very slightly. Also, it seems the chinstrap was shortened/looped on the hook side's end, probably to protect the wearer's neck from the exposed metal.

I've taken additional closeups of the issues you've all raised in case these would be helpful:

The bales:

The chinstrap ends:

The center of the inside liner:

And the outside:

And a part of the liner's leather chinstrap:

 

[reservist1]

it seems the chinstrap was shortened/looped on the hook side's end, probably to protect the wearer's neck from the exposed metal.

Ron: The hook side of your chinstrap with the "looped" portion behind the hook is the standard configuration.

Reservist1

 

[RON]

Hey R1: I thought it was modified/shortened because the strap is too short to fit backwards around the rim of the helmet like these used to be (see reference photo below)...

What about the other closeups? Any clues as to whether this is a US-made WW2 M1 pot or not?

 

[RON]

As my shell doesn't look like much on its own, I recently bought this nice mint/unused WW2 USMC M1 Helmet Camouflage Mosquito Net...