Why are Pickelhaubes so small ????

N

newbe

New member
I have a general question. Most if not all my pickelhaubes are very small, you could certainly never put them on your head. I am often asked why this is. I usually reply to the effect that this is this because the soldiers themselves were small and malnourished? A lot of my military friends say this was not the case and is probably through shrinkage of the leather?

However on reading the literature it is often cited that men enlisted had an average height of under 4 foot 6 inches and even special battalions of bantams ( very small) recruits were enlisted.

Attached is a you tube movie from the area where I used to live from 1901. They certainly look an undernourished and emaciated bunch and not a six footer amongst them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFKyrUXmCMk


What would be the official Pickelhuabes.com stance on this??
 
Hey Newbe,
People were much smaller then, a large part due to nutrition, if a person is malnourished as an infant, they do not grow as large, this can be easily seen today with cattle, a calf that has a mother that produces a lot of milk will be much larger than a calf whose mother only produces a small amount.
At the turn of the century, food may have been plentiful, but it was seasonal, so even if you were able to get enough to eat all year, it was not a well balance diet.
Best
Gus
 
Hello Newbe,
Years ago, when I studied sociology, demography was a part of my studies. The average length of male persons (know by deduction from the length of skeletons) evolved like this: around 3000 BC in ancient Egypt people had an average lenth of only 140 cm. By the year 30 this was 150 cm in Europe. During the Crusades average length was 160 cm and around 1700 165 cm. Around 1825 som 169 cm and official military records show that the average length of european recruits was already 170 cm in 1915. BUT: due to extremely increasing industrialisation in the second half of the 19th century (people living in cities in over-crowded houses, more often than not with 10 to 15 persons in 1 room and no hygiene at all), diseases like cholera and tyfus spread widely and influenced considerably life expectation and quality. It was like returning to the health-conditions in the few but very unhealthy cities during the Middle Ages.This could explain why recruits during that period were considerably smaller in size than their colleagues before and after that period. Even compared to the soldiers from the Napoleonic wars (french cuirassiers had to be 180 cm at least and were not hard to find) or the 18th-century prussian Garde-Grenadiere from Frederic the Great ('Lange Kerls'), both periods with a mostly rural society, people were small during that period and did not follow the "regular" evolution in length. By the way, people in the Netherlands, my neighbouring country, have an average length of 180 cm nowadays and are the tallest in the world. Scientists expect a maximum sized population worldwide by the year 2050.
 
Hey Fritz, I forgot to mention the effects of disease, but I will have to challange your comment that the Netherlanders are the talles in the world, I believe that the Watusi people in Africa merit that distinction.
Best
Gus
 
Hello Gus,

I suppose you could be right but in auxology (the science concerning the size of men) there are no statistics about the Masaï (from which the Dinka and Tutsi tribes are a part).
Johan
 
Tony, it is true that they were childern, but by the time you reach the age of 14, your head size is pretty much as big as it is going to get.
 
Having collected Pickelhauben since the late 1950's I will share a few observations; I have only once had an enlisted man's helmet (1915 Bavarian) which would fit my head and I am 5'11". I have had quite a few officer's and Military official's helmets that fit me well.

Two factors to consider are first, shrinkage and the quailty of manufacture as well as material, i.e. vulcan fibre and second nutritional benefits enjoyed by the aristocracy and upper middle classes. Over the decades class genetics must have also played an important roll.

Studies have shown the Dutch to be the tallest nation, not tribe, in the world.
 
What size is your noggin in cm?
I have an officer's Tschapka that'll fit a size 59 head, but the helmet is marked a 58 1/2 and the liner is long gone.
 
Have mercy - how many cm are all those feet? :D

I think the small size is the reason why so many liners are missing. In the interim period, spiked helmets were practically worthless so if you wanted to wear one for whatever reason you did not hesitate to rip out the inner works.
 
What was the smallest known issue size, or smallest marked size thats out there thats not a childs but an actual soldier Piece? I did look all around to try and find this on the board and this was the closest thread I found, hope someone reads this, lol

Ohh PS I do have a private maker marked Shako thats a 52 size.Like small melon size.

PSS its a Herm Flohr, Coln, 1916
Please tell me I dont have the smallest one here... :eek:
 
alanike said:
What was the smallest known issue size, or smallest marked size thats out there thats not a childs but an actual soldier Piece? I did look all around to try and find this on the board and this was the closest thread I found, hope someone reads this, lol

Ohh PS I do have a private maker marked Shako thats a 52 size.Like small melon size.
Click to expand...

That is tiny. The smallest Pickelhaube I've seen is a 53 cm.
 
Size 28. And he's in my bed right now snoring like a little pig...

Kais_2008_web.jpg
 
Please tell me I dont have the smallest one here...
Click to expand...

Boy didn't you open yourself up for this one… we stopped comparing when James took his clothes off at SOS several years ago.
 
But its nice to see the Kaiser size is a mini 28, lol love that pic, awsome site ( the bunker ) by the way, one of the " GO TO " education places on the WEB, many thanks for your dedication. The SOS history lesson of size..mmmmmm..we all hope it isnt our turn when caught coming out of the cold pool etc when witness's ( said friends ) are around to make us remember, lol I used to belong to a group in the Ches Bay area / Hampton Roads when I was still active duty and also the " youngest " of the group, had some great times at the Old MAX show week before it moved to PA. Been thinking about doing the SOS, as I miss the old ewww ahhhmmmm glazed eye want it all feeling of years past, lol, You guys must have some stories ( secret till the death ) Im sure. I did love looking at some of the SOS show pics posted here, tables full of buy me items yelling as you walk by. By the way... is a 52 the smallest issue size or Kaisers 28?? Most of my refernce in which I find nothing on size is the Verlag Mil series.
 
I remember many, many years ago I had to fly to Germany and my dad and I drove from Florida up to New York City because I was flying out of Kennedy Airport. We had a day to kill and we went to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. They had a very large display of suits of armor from the 1400 and 1500's. All but one that we saw would fit a 10-12 year old boy today. There was one suit made for a knight who was at least six feet tall. It was very bulky and ugly looking, not at all slim and sleek like the smaller ones.
 
Liongules said:
I remember many, many years ago I had to fly to Germany and my dad and I drove from Florida up to New York City because I was flying out of Kenney Airport. We had a day to kill and we went to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. They had a very large display of suits of armor from the 1400 and 1500's. All but one that we saw would fit a 10-12 year old boy today. There was one suit made for a knight who was at least six feet tall. It was very bulky and ugly looking, not at all slim and sleek like the smaller ones.
Click to expand...

If it was gilt, it was one of the many harnesses made for Henry VIII. I've seen that collection as well. VERY impressive. Another great collection is in Vienna and let's not forget the Wallace collection!

Man, I wish I'd have been around in the 'interim period' when Pickelhaube were next to worthless!

:D Ron
 
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