Wonder what the thoughts are on this
- Thread starter my8trax
- Start date
my8trax said:
Good choice. You answered your own question. Why would a III- helmet have a I+ liner??
Magic!
pointystuff
Active member
The exterior of an original helmet won't have little holes from hairs or skin pores. The plate and spike are not shaped quite right; the star studs and the vented spine aren't found together on real ones. A tongued liner like that doesn't match with star studs., either.
The replicas are getting closer, but the details are still far from right.
The replicas are getting closer, but the details are still far from right.
poniatowski
Well-known member
Yes, obviously a fake. Ratty looking thing anyway.
pointystuff
Active member
When told the helmet was a modern copy, the seller replied,
"Thank you for your opinion."
"Thank you for your opinion."
Crap pics...side ways for the most part and no clear shot of the spike top. No close up of the wappen. FYI...these liners are absolutely NEVER dyed on both sides. The M15s often have undyed liners but anything else...black on one side and natural tan on the other. It is very hard to buy or track down today the proper type of leather with the proper thickness. Everything today is dyed on both sides because of our modern manufacturing techniques and fortunately this is a dead give away for repros! Brian
poniatowski
Well-known member
Like Brian said, learning to ID liners as original, replacement /replica is important and a poorly replicated liner is a dead give away to a newer helmet. Also, as stated, knowing that the porous look of the leather (no lacquer) denotes a replica / fake. (replica if sold as such, fake if sold as original). The porous side would be inward on an original dome, front and rear visors with the cut side being covered with the black lacquer. This one looks like it was made from a 1970's couch.
Ron
Ron
my8trax
New member
Here is one on UK Ebay. The liner looks to have a slight pattern, in very nice shape, and are those eyelets in it? Seems to be black on both sides too if you look closely. ( I don't know how to post a pic below text here)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Model-1895-Wurttemberg-Artillery-Pickelhaube_W0QQitemZ300357672340QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Militaria_LE?hash=item45eeb65d94
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Model-1895-Wurttemberg-Artillery-Pickelhaube_W0QQitemZ300357672340QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Militaria_LE?hash=item45eeb65d94
poniatowski
Well-known member
Maybe we need a 'How to spot fakes' sticky on this thread. Seems the fakes are outnumbering originals now by quite a bit. Not that I mind replicas.. just replicas being pawned off as originals.
Ron
Ron
my8trax
New member
I think that would be great to try Ron, I know there are some good ref sites on the web, but I appreciate when we spot one on Ebay, and can ref the pics as to what doesn't look quite right. Also, some of the methods to age things. I bought a good copy (not from India) of a Confederate sword, and just did not like the look of a shiny new Confederate sword. I would never portray it as original, just wanted it older looking for myself. Through a little research on the net, and with amonia, and muriatic acid (not together) I was able to age the steel and brass quite nicely. Seems I have read some about the color of rust and age..red rust being new, guess it turns dark over time? Bet there is a lot of knowledge out there on this subject. I would love to read more about it.
In my humble opinion, that helmet is a good one although obviously not Arty. For instance, look how closely that wappen sucks up to the shell. I have seen that hash mark pattern on liners before especially the older ones with squared tips on the fingers. The use of eyelets on Infantry helmet liners is not common but it is common on tschapkas and some busbies so I would not hold this against the piece. I think that the finger tips on this liner are simply dirty from age and use.
One of the key things to look for in the pics of liners is how close does the edge of the liner suck up to the edge of the shell. On originals they are generally tight ie no major wrinkles along the edge of the shell. In addition, on the repro officer liners that we have seen up for sale in Europe, the stitches holding the crappy silk bag to the edge of the sweat band are stitched along the edge of the sweat band and are totally visible. Meaning, that the faker just ran the sewing machine around the edge of the sweat band. They did not do this on the originals. They tack stitch the silk to every other scallop of the sweat band edge. Not doubt, originally they had a special atatchment on their sewing machine to do this but I have to do it by hand when restoring and it is a real pain!! So some additional dead give aways when looking at liners of all types. As to the appearance of more and more fakes....re enactors and their suppliers, the high demand for helmets, and collectors who do not research or know their shit. Brian
One of the key things to look for in the pics of liners is how close does the edge of the liner suck up to the edge of the shell. On originals they are generally tight ie no major wrinkles along the edge of the shell. In addition, on the repro officer liners that we have seen up for sale in Europe, the stitches holding the crappy silk bag to the edge of the sweat band are stitched along the edge of the sweat band and are totally visible. Meaning, that the faker just ran the sewing machine around the edge of the sweat band. They did not do this on the originals. They tack stitch the silk to every other scallop of the sweat band edge. Not doubt, originally they had a special atatchment on their sewing machine to do this but I have to do it by hand when restoring and it is a real pain!! So some additional dead give aways when looking at liners of all types. As to the appearance of more and more fakes....re enactors and their suppliers, the high demand for helmets, and collectors who do not research or know their shit. Brian