your opinion about this felt tschapka, please
- Thread starter PICKELMAX
- Start date
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Hi Maxime:
I suppose I was waiting for those more qualified than I to speak first. Filz Tschapka scare me to death, and this example is no exception. From what I can see (important qualification), the Tschapka appears okay from the outside. However, it is difficult to judge the profile of the helmet without a dedicated side view.
Two large concerns, IMO, are the liner and the Preußen Infantry Wappen. The liner, with its rounded tongues, looks like it was "borrowed" from a conventional Pickelhaube, and its bunched appearance would indicate it is too large for the Korpus. Due to its proportions, and the absence of interlaced breast feathers beneath the "FR," I believe the eagle is also from a Pickelhaube.
Externally, however, the Tschapka closely resembles the specimen on page 385 of the Kraus reference. This could be an original helmet with a replaced liner and eagle.
I don't think a definitive endorsement of this Tschapka is possible unless someone out there owns one and cares to participate.
Chas.
I suppose I was waiting for those more qualified than I to speak first. Filz Tschapka scare me to death, and this example is no exception. From what I can see (important qualification), the Tschapka appears okay from the outside. However, it is difficult to judge the profile of the helmet without a dedicated side view.
Two large concerns, IMO, are the liner and the Preußen Infantry Wappen. The liner, with its rounded tongues, looks like it was "borrowed" from a conventional Pickelhaube, and its bunched appearance would indicate it is too large for the Korpus. Due to its proportions, and the absence of interlaced breast feathers beneath the "FR," I believe the eagle is also from a Pickelhaube.
Externally, however, the Tschapka closely resembles the specimen on page 385 of the Kraus reference. This could be an original helmet with a replaced liner and eagle.
I don't think a definitive endorsement of this Tschapka is possible unless someone out there owns one and cares to participate.
Chas.
Interesting comments re the liner Chas. I had heard in my collector travels that the erzats filz tschapka liners were simplified. The typical tschapka liner is quite complex and as such I do not know of anyone reproducing them. On the originals you have 2 stitch seams on the rim which sandwich a thin round dowel of bamboo between them. The filz helme also has a one piece front visor not a folded one which we find on the leather ones. Perhaps this is another reason for using a simple infantry pattern liner on the filz tschapka?
If that infantry liner was put in as a replacement, it must have been a long time ago. The conditoin of the liner with splits, tears and red rot indicate long time service. You could not stitch that piece of leather into the filz shell in that condition today. The thing would literally fall apart if you tried. I guess, the bottom line is that there are too few of these original filz tschapkas that have survived. Does any one have an original or had a chance to examine one?? We all know that there are filz repros out there. Can you say shako Chas???
Last...what does the paper label (etiquette) say? Which firm made this helme? Perhaps it is on our list. B
If that infantry liner was put in as a replacement, it must have been a long time ago. The conditoin of the liner with splits, tears and red rot indicate long time service. You could not stitch that piece of leather into the filz shell in that condition today. The thing would literally fall apart if you tried. I guess, the bottom line is that there are too few of these original filz tschapkas that have survived. Does any one have an original or had a chance to examine one?? We all know that there are filz repros out there. Can you say shako Chas???
Last...what does the paper label (etiquette) say? Which firm made this helme? Perhaps it is on our list. B
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Hi Brian:b.loree said:
Can I ever!
The less said about that fiasco, the better.Another point worth considering regarding Tschapka liners is the characteristic shell curvature above the ear before dipping downward to cover the occiput. Kürassier and JzP helmets also curve above the ear, but Pickelhauben have a straight line circumference. What I can't tell from Max's pictures is the shape of the helmet from the visor brad to brad, and whether the liner is sewn in place or glued. Although Kraus illustrates a Bavarian Tschapka with liner tongues arching to a point, I would generally expect the liner to conform to the customary squared tongues (utilized even with my Ersatz Eisenblech).
http://www.pickelhaubes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=99&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
If the liner has been replaced, the replacement is certainly an original Pickelhaube pattern liner. However, the leather also appears quite thick for a Filzhelm. Here again, I have just two Filz Pickelhauben and their liners are black. As I said, I know next to nothing about the construction of these Tschapka. The only ones I've seen up close have been obvious shams.
Perhaps Max can post additional pictures.
Chas.
PICKELMAX
Member
I friends,
Thanks for your comments. I'm not afraid about the liner because all the felt tschapkas that I've seen did have a similar liner. Here you're more pictures.
I do,believe this one one is genuine but I don't know how much could be the correct price to buy it. I saw recently the same one selling by Regimentals for more than 2.000 € and I know that this seller is well known for overpricing his items. An another one has been sold in eBay Fr for 243 € but without the mortar board, the chinstrap and the cocarde (http://cgi.ebay.fr/shapska-feutre-1915-bombe-uniquement_W0QQitemZ150069085484QQihZ005QQcategoryZ79243QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).
Thanks for your answers and your comments.
Maxime
Thanks for your comments. I'm not afraid about the liner because all the felt tschapkas that I've seen did have a similar liner. Here you're more pictures.
I do,believe this one one is genuine but I don't know how much could be the correct price to buy it. I saw recently the same one selling by Regimentals for more than 2.000 € and I know that this seller is well known for overpricing his items. An another one has been sold in eBay Fr for 243 € but without the mortar board, the chinstrap and the cocarde (http://cgi.ebay.fr/shapska-feutre-1915-bombe-uniquement_W0QQitemZ150069085484QQihZ005QQcategoryZ79243QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).
Thanks for your answers and your comments.
Maxime
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Thanks Max and Bruno.
I really had no experience with these specific characteristics, and clearly didn't know.
Chas.
I really had no experience with these specific characteristics, and clearly didn't know.
Chas.
Bruno: Your last comment about filz wappen seals the deal for me. My vote is that the tschapka is real. I think Max is going for it anyway. What I find intriguing, is how they fastened the felt mortar board to the shell. I see 4 domed brads and the usual reinforcing plate in that inside shot. Does anyone remember the filz kurassier helme that was offered on ebay some time ago? To me, that had to be the wildest example of filz helme work that I have ever seen. Brian
zipperheads9
New member
Good luck with getting it MAX . I like the look of the felt tcsapka.
Mark
Mark