A Message To New Pickelhaube Collectors

[b.loree]

First, a welcome to all present and future new "haube" collectors. Our forum has several goals or "missions" one of which is to simply share information and enjoy interactions with collectors that love History and more specifically, Imperial German militaria. To my mind, there is also a second just as important area for us to focus on and that is to help and encourage new folks to join our hobby. As an "old hand", a collector of 40+ years, I know that I am merely the present "curator" of these Historical pieces. Consequently, we need to encourage new collectors to ask questions and learn about this fascinating area of collecting so that they will in turn preserve these objects. On a more practical note, our experts here can save you substantial sums of cash if you ask questions or post photos of something you are thinking of buying. At any rate, "new collectors", do not hesitate to post you photos and questions here in this new part of the forum!

 

[cottys]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to buying picklehaube and have nearly Been stung twice now with either fake or just scammers online. I have found two helmets of interest to me here is one and its stated as being;" a bavarian o/r reserve pickelhaube in brass to either 22 IR or 28IR" please see the pictures and what do you think is it genuine and what's a realistic uk price?
Thanks in advance,
Dave

 

[cottys]

Also this helmet I'm interested in this helmet stated as a;
a ww1 prussion o/r pickelhaube helmet marked 1916 and a 55, 1/2 ? , the spine and front peak and spine and side posts and the 4 studs in grey metal and the spike and plate in brass.
Please see the pictures and what do you think is it genuine and what's a realistic uk price?

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Dave- top one looks ok, Bavarian M95 if marked IR 22 then ok, if it is IR 28 then not Bavarian, I would then pass.

Second helmet is a mixture of parts from a M95 and M15, I would pass on this one.

James

 

[Sandmann]

Hello Dave and welcome to the Forum.
In my eyes the first helmet has been reworked too. The nut of the backspine is hexagonal, which is not original. Do you have better photos of the back of the Bavarian helmet? I can’t see much thread on the right side and would check if the stitching is ok.

 

[Amybellars]

The first helmet is missing the reserve cross. The four holes remain on the bavarian wappen

 

[cottys]

Dave- top one looks ok, Bavarian M95 if marked IR 22 then ok, if it is IR 28 then not Bavarian, I would then pass.

Second helmet is a mixture of parts from a M95 and M15, I would pass on this one.

James

Thank you James for the information, looking at the picture attached it looks to be an IR22. I will give the prussion helmet a miss now, looking forward to owning and collecting.
David

 

[cottys]

Hello Dave and welcome to the Forum.
In my eyes the first helmet has been reworked too. The nut of the backspine is hexagonal, which is not original. Do you have better photos of the back of the Bavarian helmet? I can’t see much thread on the right side and would check if the stitching is ok.

Hello, thank you for your help and information, so happy to have this forum, so many fakes or scammers out there and being new to it and even reading up on the helmets. I thought its better to get a second opinion from collectors. Please see the attached pictures attached, let me know what you think. Thanks
David

 

[cottys]

The first helmet is missing the reserve cross. The four holes remain on the bavarian wappen

Thanks, to understand this the Bavarian helmet wappen is the wrong type for the helmet? Please see pictures any information is really appreciated. Thanks David

 

[Lars13]

Welcome David,
The Bavarian helmet looks reworked, but as far as I can see it is a period rework, i.e. done during the first world war. Old holes for the Wappen seem to have been properly covered, and the rear visor seems too thin and too dark for leather and still in very good shape, so imo made from Vulkanfiber which is probably the case with the front visor also. This was typical for older helmets that were cut down (lowered in height) and then fitted with new front & rear visor. I have a similar helmet: https://www.pickelhaubes.com/xf/threads/original-m15-restoration-conversion.11302/post-79653
The Wappen however is an incomplete Reserve/Landwehr officer type, while the helmet is other ranks.
Strangely enough, a helmet without Wappen, Kokarden or chin-strap is not worth very much, maybe 150-300 GBP. A complete, common type, helmet on Ebay might cost 600-750 GPB, with prices of 250 GBP for a chin-strap, 100 GBP for the Kokarden and something similar for the Wappen, the remaining value of just the shell without any of these is 150-300 GBP.
Regards,
Lars

 

[Amybellars]

Thanks, to understand this the Bavarian helmet wappen is the wrong type for the helmet? Please see pictures any information is really appreciated. Thanks David

If u said the marking is IR22 then it shd have the bavarian infantry wappen. There are 4 holes on your wappen such means it's bavarian reserve such the markings shd be RIR22

liner also seems to have issues

 

[Sandmann]

Hello, thank you for your help and information, so happy to have this forum, so many fakes or scammers out there and being new to it and even reading up on the helmets. I thought its better to get a second opinion from collectors. Please see the attached pictures attached, let me know what you think. Thanks
David

Dave, this is the area where I can’t see the thread and would check:

 

[b.loree]

Welcome to the forum Dave. It’s great to see the interaction here between a new collector and the more experienced members. This is the exact reason why I wanted to create this area where people new to the hobby can get answers to their questions.

 

[b.loree]

An example of a complete Bavarian Reservist Wappen from my collection:

The reverse:

 

[Lars13]

Thanks for posting your Wappen Brian,
so I was wrong when I said that the voided Wappen is for officers?
Regards,
Lars

 

[b.loree]

You are welcome Lars. I don’t know the answer to your question, perhaps James can as he is the primary Bavarian collector that I know of here on the forum. I do know that the usual voided crowns rule which works for Prussia and other states doesn’t seem to apply to Bavaria.

 

[Sandmann]

Thanks for posting your Wappen Brian,
so I was wrong when I said that the voided Wappen is for officers?
Regards,
Lars

For Bavarian plates the rule with the voided crown for officers applies to the small crowns of the side lions. But it was not consistently followed, because there were also officers' plates without voided crowns. However, you can differ the Bavarian officers' plates and enlisted mens‘ plates by their sizes.

 

[cottys]

Welcome David,
The Bavarian helmet looks reworked, but as far as I can see it is a period rework, i.e. done during the first world war. Old holes for the Wappen seem to have been properly covered, and the rear visor seems too thin and too dark for leather and still in very good shape, so imo made from Vulkanfiber which is probably the case with the front visor also. This was typical for older helmets that were cut down (lowered in height) and then fitted with new front & rear visor. I have a similar helmet: https://www.pickelhaubes.com/xf/threads/original-m15-restoration-conversion.11302/post-79653
The Wappen however is an incomplete Reserve/Landwehr officer type, while the helmet is other ranks.
Strangely enough, a helmet without Wappen, Kokarden or chin-strap is not worth very much, maybe 150-300 GBP. A complete, common type, helmet on Ebay might cost 600-750 GPB, with prices of 250 GBP for a chin-strap, 100 GBP for the Kokarden and something similar for the Wappen, the remaining value of just the shell without any of these is 150-300 GBP.
Regards,
Lars

Thank you Lars,
for all the information and good to know on the pricing, sad to say I missed buying that helmet yesterday, a bit upset to say the least. So will probably be asking more questions when I find another one.
Kind regards,
David

 

[cottys]

Welcome to the forum Dave. It’s great to see the interaction here between a new collector and the more experienced members. This is the exact reason why I wanted to create this area where people new to the hobby can get answers to their questions.

 

[cottys]

Thank you for creating the group and what a great group of people are on this forum. I have always wanted a picklehaube and have been trying to read up and make sure I didn't get a fake or just something that was a mix of helmets. I missed out on the helmet yesterday sad to say and no doubt once I come across another one I will be asking everyone on here for their advise.
Please keep this forum especially for novice want to be collectors like me.