Bavarian Pionier?

Naprawiacz

Active member
I have a question for gentlemen. The item is from my collection. Is this an officer pickelhaube from Bavarian Pionier Bataillon 1.2?
 

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911car

Well-known member
It can be Infanterie Leib Regiment, or Pionier Batl. 1-4.
This makes five possibilities.
 

Naprawiacz

Active member
Due to the formation period of the 3rd and 4th regiments, this is not possible. Apart from the three stars, the spike is not secured with a small additional plate.The Pickelhaube from the Leib Regiment has an additional mounting plate in addition to the three stars. Thank you very much for your feedback.
 

911car

Well-known member
Naprawiacz said:
Due to the formation period of the 3rd and 4th regiments, this is not possible. Apart from the three stars, the spike is not secured with a small additional plate.The Pickelhaube from the Leib Regiment has an additional mounting plate in addition to the three stars. Thank you very much for your feedback.

Then why do you ask the question, since you seem so confident in your knowledge??
I do not get your point, regarding the 3rd and 4th bataillons (not regiments). These were formed in 1872 and 1912, respectively. Why shouldn't they have the same helmet as the 1st and 2nd?
What do you mean by "small additional plate"? The reinforcement plate inside the shell? First, you did not post a picture to show whether this plate is present or not in your helmet. Second, this is certainly not a criterion to distinguish helmets from two different regiments!! There were variations between makers. Moreover, these cruciforms plates have been often lost and different configurations are encountered. Really the last characteristic to differentiate a Leib from a Pioneer officer helmet...
If your small additional plate is something else, please explain.
 

Naprawiacz

Active member
Thank you for your answer. I will try to explain what I mean. The emblem comes from 1886. Bayer. 4. (Festungs-) Pionier-Bataillon was founded on October 1, 1912.I mean the mount shown in the new photos.In the pickelhaube from the Leib Regiment, I still saw a small attachment under the crown of the emblem.I'm not sure of anything, that's why I ask.Was the 1886 emblem worn in 1912 ? Can I use three elements in a pickelhaube Leib? English is not my mother tongue, so please be understanding.Have a nice day.
 

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911car

Well-known member
Hi Naprawiacz,

No problem, I am happy to help if I can. You are correct, your helmet bears the 1886 plate; however, for officers this model was used till 1914, when it was replaced by the emblem without laurel leaves. This is different from enlisted helmets that were fit with the new simplified plate as early as 1896. Therefore, the four pioneer battalions had the helmet with the 1886 emblem. I am still not sure about the small attachment you mentioned. Is it on the spike basis? And what do you mean by "Can I use three elements in a pickelhaube Leib"? If easier, write it in Polish and I will ask my Polish friend to translate...
Welcome to the forum and happy New Year!
 

Naprawiacz

Active member
All the best for the New Year. Thank you for your wishes and opinions. Kominek krzyżowy ,który widziałem w pickelhaubach z Leib Regiment posiada mocowania na trzy gwiazdki. Czwarty element krzyża łączony jest cienką blaszką zasłoniętą przez środkową koronę emblematu.Prezentowana moja pika nie posiada tego mocowania-zdjęcia.Mam pytanie,czy możliwe jest,że ta pika jest oprócz pionierów przynależna Leib?
 

Amybellars

Active member
Bruno, he refers to the attachment under the shorter leg of the spike. Sometimes this small attachment does not exist. So don't be obsess by the small attachment.
 

911car

Well-known member
Thank you Amy, James. This is obviously something I have never paid much attention to...
Since there is no way to distinguish a Leib from a pioneer officer helmet anyway, unless the wearer was identified, I suppose it is not possible to correlate the presence of this appendix with a given regiment...
 

b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
I also repaired one which had a split prong soldered to the underside of that front arm of the cruciform spike base.
 
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