Bruno you bad little boy .... Nice toy!

joerookery

joerookery

Well-known member
I thought that helmet looked interesting too! Very large cross. All of the gilt color. Do you think this is thick patina? I can't wait to hear your thoughts and see pics.
 
Hi Joe,
It took me some time... are you referring to this Saxe-Weimar helmet on ebay?...
Bruno
 
What I liked is that it has the correct R32 marking (one of the reserve regiments for IR94).
We'll see... I will send more pictures if worth it.
Bruno
 
I will send more pictures if worth it.
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Bruno you HAVE to. This is like Tony teasing on the 9th of July. (yes I am close to snivelling) That helmet has MANY cool fascets. I am most interrested in the patina/color of the normally silver items. Why do they appear so yellow? This could help understanding of other color mismatches.

it has the correct R32 marking (one of the reserve regiments for IR94
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Lacarde made these claims and I have no reason to think he was wrong but HOW did he figure it out? I understand that you can trace a Landwehr unit to the Bizirk HQ but a reserve unit???? How do you do it? What reference? Hoe do we know which minor state reserve unit used what wappen?

Lastly Why does this reserve OR helmet have a cross and others do not?

So it might be routine for you but it has my interest!
 
Larcade's bibliography is listed at the end of his books. Of course I did not re-check everything but I never found a mistake in what he wrote regarding affiliations. For instance I found an Oldenburg reserve helmet marked to R79 and still with the original Ueberzug marked R79 in green numbers (straight from the family of the soldier who brought it back from the war, in central France; no doubt possible regarding authenticity). Yet, as you say, the Oldenburg plate bears the motto and no reserve cross...
Bruno
 
Hi Joe,
I received the toy… and I changed my mind. Naively, I thought initially that this was a Saxe-Weimar (JR94) reserve helmet, and that R32 was the reserve regiment it belonged to. When I got the hat I made out another marking, in a rectangle on the rear flap: 1B. RJR71, and hand-written inside the shell reads: Gefr. (Gefreiter) Roehmer 1./71. . I was at first puzzled but then I discovered in Larcade’s book that the first battalion of RJR71 was the reserve of… JR95, which had the same front plate as JR94. Then things became clear (unless somebody has another interpretation): this helmet was originally affected to JR32 (Meiningen, XI AK), then reaffected to RJR71, 1B (reserve of JR95, Duchy of Saxe-Meiningen-Coburg-Gotha, XI AK). Bad news is that I have a Saxe-Weimar cockade… But I am sure that aficionados on the forum have dozens of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha cockades (green/white/green) and will be able to help me…
The helmet is dusty and dirty but original in every respect. The plate was not affixed with the common leather tabs but with threads knotted through the loops. With time the threads dried off and shrunk and when somebody pulled off the plate they went through the eyelets and remained attached to the loops. When the plate was put back onto the helmet the thickness of the threads prevented the loops to go completely through the holes; this is why on the ad the plate seemed to be poorly fitted on the shell, but when I took care to put the threads through the eyelets everything went back into order and now the plate is well applied on the helmet.
Overall a very good surprise. A reserve Saxe-Coburg-Gotha helmet is not the most common one around. If somebody can help me post pictures I will be happy to send some.
My best to all of you,
Bruno
 
911car said:
JR95, which had the same front plate as JR94.
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Hi Bruno:

Congratulations on a splendid helmet. You may have to think on this some more as the Wappen is the IR 94 Sachsen-Weimar-Eisenach design. The IR 95 Wappen consists of the Sachsen crest framed by identical sprigs of laurel leaves, whereas IR 94 has one sprig of laurels (left) and one sprig oakleaves (right).

Chas.
 
This is what I thought Chas but looking at other sources I found the IR95 plate to be the same...
Bruno
 
This is what I thought Chas but looking at other sources I found the IR95 plate to be the same...
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While we wait for Bruno's pictures, I thought I would look at this statement. Ruhl does just that lumping all of the Saxon duchies into one big group.
Off_25_1.jpg

Das Deitsche Heer does a more exacting job on Tafel 57 and differentiates by Regiment.
tafel57_1.jpg

Tafel 49 on landwer Crosses only shows the 94th.
Colonel Ron had an ersatz 153rd.
close%20up.jpg

I havea 94th.
wappens.jpg

As these two are different -- are they all?
I also have a pic of the 95th with several type helmets but no state wappen.
95thhats1.jpg

95thhats2.jpg

95thhats3.jpg


I am still digging in the Reserve/Landwehr area.
But...
Larcade's bibliography is listed at the end of his books. Of course I did not re-check everything but I never found a mistake in what he wrote regarding affiliations.
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I am sure that Lacarde is right. He has an amazing amount of specificity. However, his bibliography stinks. A listing of 18 general sources, including the entire Zeitschrift für Heerskunde does not narrow it down for researchers. I feel like a scientist trying to re-create St. Elmo's fire. I know it existed, but I cannot re-create how it was done.

This is an extremely interesting helmet with an awful lot of questions surrounding it. What color is the center of the wappen?
 
Wow! That I did not expect! That appears to be an M1871 Reserve eagle, but it has had the posts removed, M1895 loops added, and the star Wappen placed over the EK indent on the chest. Bizarre?

:scratch:
 
2 more pictures and text from Bruno I didn't get together yesterday.
DSC00128.jpg

DSC00136.jpg

You will see several markings: 1B. RJR71 on the rear flap and Rohner 1./71 hand-written inside the shell. Then R32. and Tarcher in large characters on the rear visor and inside the shell. For this reason I suppose the most recent owner was Tarcher. After re-checking I now agree with you and Chas. This helmet was probably first affected to 1B. RJR71 (Rohner, reserve of JR95), then to R32 (Tarcher, reserve of JR94). The front emblem is indeed typical of Saxe-Weimar, with the different leaves. After all, all they had to do to switch from 95 to 94 was changing the small oval emblem, which probably explains that there is no trace on the shell that another plate was ever affixed on this helmet (and I looked closely). The Saxe-Weimar emblem and reserve cross are both made of white metal. It is not the first time I see a large, older model plated affixed on a 1895 reserve helmet. In fact I have another one, from a reserve prussian regiment, with a plate of the same model and size, attached with threads.

Interesting helmet. I have not decided yet whether I will leave it as it is or go through a light cleaning. The gilt on the eagle seems to still be in very good condition.
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Bruno I think your issue theory is right. They did share a BKA.
The Saxe-Weimar emblem and reserve cross are both made of white metal.
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Why do these parts look so yellow if they are white metal? I have a similar question on a Saxon cockiade. How do you tell?
wappen.jpg


Can you measure the cross? It seems very large.
 
Why do these parts look so yellow if they are white metal? I have a similar question on a Saxon cockiade. How do you tell?
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Joe: There are two possibilities. 1. Depending on the alloy, German silver sometimes turns "yelowish" as it ozidizes. With a little proper cleaning the wappen & cross will most likely come back to a white color. 2. Some white metal helmet parts, usually lesser quality private putrchase items, were stamped brass that was then very lightly plated. If plated parts of this type have been cleaned with an abrasive cleaner like Brasso at some point in time the cleaner strips the plating leaving just the brass.
Very unusual helmet.

Reservist1
 
Congratulations Bruno on a very nice helmet! It is such an added bonus to have the correct Regimental markings to tell us a little of the helmets' history. Regarding original kokarden, your best bet of course is German Ebay. I have managed to purchase kokarden for my JR 91, 94 and 95 helmets all from this source and not at a huge cost. So, they are out there, we just have to be patient and watch the listings. Brian
 
Tony & Kaiser said:
That appears to be an M1871 Reserve eagle, but it has had the posts removed, M1895 loops added, and the star Wappen placed over the EK indent on the chest.
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Given the configuration, it makes sense to utilize a taller profile eagle to position the IR 94 Wappen and large Reserve Kreuz without extreme overlapping. However, it is mind bending to contemplate the number of conversions this bird has undergone (1871 to 1895; IR 95 Reserve to IR 94 Reserve).

Joe, there is some precedent for larger Reserve Kreuzen on Mannschaften helmets. Here is my IR 92 IB Wappen. The Braunschweig Stern and the Kreuz are integrated. Note the proportions:

PICT0022.jpg


I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I thought it would be in the common interest to include a few pictures of my IR 94 Reserve Offizier Pickelhaube. Bruno, here is the private purchase version of your wonderful helmet.

Chas.

PICT0142.jpg


PICT0139.jpg


PICT0140.jpg
 
Beautiful helmet Chas! Thanks to all of you for your comments. I share Reservist1's opinion regarding discoloration of silvered items. Matt-silvered officer plates that have been unduly polished by laypeople also turn yellowish; in that instance there is nothing to do to restore the original finish. On this very helmet it seems that the yellow patina is superficial and I guess that light cleaning with diluted lemon juice would bring the silver color back.
I forgot to mention that there is another name written inside the shell: Bowman (coincidence!) then other letters I cannot make out. Maybe the name of the US soldier who brought it back. What a collection of names in this hat!
Bruno
 
1. Depending on the alloy, German silver sometimes turns "yelowish" as it ozidizes. With a little proper cleaning the wappen & cross will most likely come back to a white color. 2. Some white metal helmet parts, usually lesser quality private putrchase items, were stamped brass that was then very lightly plated. If plated parts of this type have been cleaned with an abrasive cleaner like Brasso at some point in time the cleaner strips the plating leaving just the brass.
Click to expand...

R1 makes sense again but I think there is gilding still on my Awes-Marke Saxon. I'd go for any thoughts.

there is some precedent for larger Reserve Kreuzen on Mannschaften helmets
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I don't have a problem with it just want to know how large is in this case. I think >30mm.
 
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