Can anyone verify the authenticity of this Pickelhaube from the Bavarian Field Artillery?

[omega_pickelhaube]

I am currently looking for items with connections to the Bavarian Field artillery, as my great grandfather served with them. I found this Haube for sale which seems to be the exact model my great grandfather wears on some old family photos.
Thing is, the seller asks for quite a lot of money and the liner of the Haube seems very strange to me. I asked the seller if there are any stamps etc. on the inside of the helmet, he told me there aren't any. Maybe you guys can help me out!

Thanks in advance!

 

[CLOVIS 57]

This is a Bavarian M86 field artillery helmet. But with its stars, its perlring at the base of the tip, its silk liner, its special roundels, etc... it is an officer's helmet. If your ancestor was not an officer, you will need the same helmet for the troops.
The red horsehair Haarbusch is correct, but was only worn on parade.
It is normal that this helmet has no marking, indeed, the helmets of officer was of personal purchase of the trade. Unlike troop helmets, which belonged to the Army, they were marked by the regiment and the Corps Clothing Office.
This helmet is a helmet made at the beginning of or during the war, because it is made of ‘Kriegsmétal’, i.e. the fittings, instead of being made of gilded brass, are partly made of gilded zinc. As the gilding is fragile, it is erased from the zinc, giving it a faded appearance. This helmet is in very average condition, one of the lion's crowns is missing, I can see some of the fragile stitching, etc... In France, a helmet like this would still fetch around €1,000-€1,300, due to the presence of the Haarbusch, which is a plus.
Here's the KB FAR M86/96 entry-level model for the troops:

If your grandfather was in the ‘foot’ artillery, i.e. heavy artillery, he had flat chinstrap scales. If he was in the field artillery (on horseback), he had curved scales.

 

[Naprawiacz]

The front visor has been glued.I have doubts about the originality of the wappen.

 

[JPT]

This is a Bavarian M86 field artillery helmet. But with its stars, its perlring at the base of the tip, its silk liner, its special roundels, etc... it is an officer's helmet. If your ancestor was not an officer, you will need the same helmet for the troops.
The red horsehair Haarbusch is correct, but was only worn on parade.
It is normal that this helmet has no marking, indeed, the helmets of officer was of personal purchase of the trade. Unlike troop helmets, which belonged to the Army, they were marked by the regiment and the Corps Clothing Office.
This helmet is a helmet made at the beginning of or during the war, because it is made of ‘Kriegsmétal’, i.e. the fittings, instead of being made of gilded brass, are partly made of gilded zinc. As the gilding is fragile, it is erased from the zinc, giving it a faded appearance. This helmet is in very average condition, one of the lion's crowns is missing, I can see some of the fragile stitching, etc... In France, a helmet like this would still fetch around €1,000-€1,300, due to the presence of the Haarbusch, which is a plus.
Here's the KB FAR M86/96 entry-level model for the troops:
View attachment 56198
If your grandfather was in the ‘foot’ artillery, i.e. heavy artillery, he had flat chinstrap scales. If he was in the field artillery (on horseback), he had curved scales.

Your expertise regarding this helmet for sale is relevant, Thank you !
About yours, can you tell us what you mean by "KB" ?

 

[Khukri]

Excellent reference book.

 

[omega_pickelhaube]

This is a Bavarian M86 field artillery helmet. But with its stars, its perlring at the base of the tip, its silk liner, its special roundels, etc... it is an officer's helmet. If your ancestor was not an officer, you will need the same helmet for the troops.
The red horsehair Haarbusch is correct, but was only worn on parade.
It is normal that this helmet has no marking, indeed, the helmets of officer was of personal purchase of the trade. Unlike troop helmets, which belonged to the Army, they were marked by the regiment and the Corps Clothing Office.
This helmet is a helmet made at the beginning of or during the war, because it is made of ‘Kriegsmétal’, i.e. the fittings, instead of being made of gilded brass, are partly made of gilded zinc. As the gilding is fragile, it is erased from the zinc, giving it a faded appearance. This helmet is in very average condition, one of the lion's crowns is missing, I can see some of the fragile stitching, etc... In France, a helmet like this would still fetch around €1,000-€1,300, due to the presence of the Haarbusch, which is a plus.
Here's the KB FAR M86/96 entry-level model for the troops:
View attachment 56198
If your grandfather was in the ‘foot’ artillery, i.e. heavy artillery, he had flat chinstrap scales. If he was in the field artillery (on horseback), he had curved scales.

Great thank you!

He served as an NCO with the 5th field artillery Regiment, I have an old picture showing him wearing the Haube with the Paradebusch, that's why this one caught my eye.

So in your opinion there is nothing obviously wrong or off with the Haube? I might try to haggle the price because right now the seller asks for 1600€ which is quite steep. On the other hand, this is the only Haube like this I found for sale in quite some time.

 

[omega_pickelhaube]

Ye

The front visor has been glued.I have doubts about the originality of the wappen.

Seems like you are right there is quite a smear on the sowing of the visor. Could you specify what you mean with doubts? So I could check with Robert references

 

[Naprawiacz]

The front visor was torn out and glued, as evidenced by the lack of thread sewing.I am also sending a photo of my wappen for comparison.Maybe I'm wrong, but my intuition tells me something is wrong.

 

[omega_pickelhaube]

The front visor was torn out and glued, as evidenced by the lack of thread sewing.I am also sending a photo of my wappen for comparison.Maybe I'm wrong, but my intuition tells me something is wrong.

Thanks a lot for the reference picture, I'll compare as soon as I get on my PC!

 

[John Josef]

can you tell us what you mean by "KB" ?

KB is short for Königlich Bayerisches or in english Royal Bavarian.

 

[JPT]

KB is short for Königlich Bayerisches or in english Royal Bavarian.

ahhhh ok Thank you

 

[John Josef]

ahhhh ok Thank you

Your very welcome.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

About yours, can you tell us what you mean by "KB" ?

Yes, K.B. = Royal Bavarian in German
Königlisch Bayerisches Feld Artillerie Regiment

 

[CLOVIS 57]

The front visor was torn out and glued, as evidenced by the lack of thread sewing.I am also sending a photo of my wappen for comparison.Maybe I'm wrong, but my intuition tells me something is wrong.

I agree with Sandy. Visor unravelled. As for the plate, yes, it's a Bavarian Gendarme plate. The central oval is larger, and the ‘Treue’ banner is lower down.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

With its shortcomings, this headset would sell for no more than €1,000. There will still be a few costs to make it right.

 

[omega_pickelhaube]

I agree with Sandy. Visor unravelled. As for the plate, yes, it's a Bavarian Gendarme plate. The central oval is larger, and the ‘Treue’ banner is lower down.

It also seems like the emblem has been glued on the Haube, supporting your statement that its not an orignal plate. In comparison to Naprawiacz's emblem the differneces become really clear.

Would you still consider this Haube in this configuration as a decent purchase if i get the price down?
A quick seach spit out this (https://www.weitze.net/militaria/87/Bayern_Helmemblem_fuer_die_Pickelhaube_Offiziere__458087.html) emblem, as the Haube would have been for an Officer or NCO the plate should be correct or am i mistaken?

I personally would be fine with a decent looking Haube, as i would love it a s a personal memento to my great grandfather. Therefore the visor is not something that bothers me to much, but the emblem really does throw me off, because it looks way to large on the Haube.

​

 

[omega_pickelhaube]

Because i mentioned it a few times now, here is a picture of my great grandfather in his uniform, the picture is the reason why i want to get the Haube and a Sabre if possible.

 

[omega_pickelhaube]

Another three pictures I got from the seller. The visor seems to be sewn on, but there I quite a lot of glue smeared all over from the "new" emblem. Could anyone tell me if removing glue from a Haube like this would be possible?

 

[Naprawiacz]

Another three pictures I got from the seller. The visor seems to be sewn on, but there I quite a lot of glue smeared all over from the "new" emblem. Could anyone tell me if removing glue from a Haube like this would be possible?

Now at least you can see something. The threads are visible, which is a good sign.You can cover this white coating with Bundeswehr paste https://allegro.pl/oferta/pasta-do-...deswehry-bw-125ml-th-geyer-czarna-14929777367

 

[Sandmann]

I wouldn't buy this helmet. It is too expensive for this condition and not the right helmet. In addition, the patina of the replacement material isn’t nice. Your GGF wasn‘t an officer but an NCO. You would need an M1886 NCO helmet of the field artillery (with curved chinscales).
The following should be more correct helmets, unfortunately without red hairbush. The first is a Landwehr helmet, but if he didn't die before he should have belonged to the Landwehr after his active military service. The 2nd is not cheap and just an EM helmet, but in really good condition and with field-artillery stamps.

Bayern Pickelhaube für einen Unteroffizier der Landwehr Chevaulegers, Feldartillerie oder Train - Bayern - Kaiserreich & Weimarer Rep.: Uniformen, Kopfbedeckungen, Stahlhelme etc. - Militaria / Helmut Weitze

Bayern Pickelhaube für einen Unteroffizier der Landwehr Chevaulegers, Feldartillerie oder Train Fertigung in schwerer Kammerqualität, um 1900. Schwerer Lederhelm, komplett mit allen Beschlägen. Großes Helmemblem mit aufgelegtem silbernen Landwehrkreuz, eckiger Vorderschirm,

www.weitze.net

ERHALTUNG Bayern Pickelhaube 1901 VIELE Stempel 3. Feldartillerie-Regiment [#15] | eBay.de

Bayern Pickelhaube 3. Gut bis sehr gut erhaltene schwere Lederglocke.

www.ebay.de