General's Helmet

poniatowski

poniatowski

Well-known member
This seller has two helmets for sale and I looked at the General's helmet (not interested in buying, I have one), but for some reason the helmet bothers me and I can't figure out why. Maybe I've become overly critical, because it looks like an honestly good helmet in fairly good condition. Any thoughts?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CASQUE-POINTE-GENERAL-PRUSSE-emaille-RARE-SUPERB-spiked-helmet-pickelhaube-WW1-/350993815071?pt=FR_JG_Collections_Militaria_Uniformes&hash=item51b8dc961f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:D Ron
 
Maybe you see the difference in colour of the helmet plate and the rest of the harware. Nevertheless it seems to be sitting there for decades... and it does look good.
The spike on the other hand doesn't fit properly, but that's maybe not turned far enough or so...

Adler
 
The seller says it is the typical General spike and not the Bavarian one,
:-k I wonder how they see this obvious difference.
 
I think you hit what was bugging me Karel. If you look at the photos with the spike removed, there was a repair done to base (under the removeable spike). I think that's what was bugging me, but I didn't see it at first. Certainly not an original repair, with all of the solder slopped around, but it MAY (or probably is?) still be the original spike.

:D Ron
 
The spike is the key gentlemen. This is a Bavarian spike. Prussian general officer fluted spikes have a base that comes down over the spike neck. The Bavarian ones fit flush with the spike neck as this does. That is the key to understanding the deception that is going on here. Unfortunately, I had to sell my Prussian general officer helme several years ago but perhaps a member who owns a legit generals' helme could post a picture of what I am talking about to clarify things. Credit goes to R Trawnik who told me about this key difference years ago when I actually bought my generals' helme.
 
There is a side-by-side comparison toward the bottom of this page:
http://www.pickelhauben.net/identity/Officer.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
b.loree said:
The spike is the key gentlemen. This is a Bavarian spike. Prussian general officer fluted spikes have a base that comes down over the spike neck. The Bavarian ones fit flush with the spike neck as this does. That is the key to understanding the deception that is going on here. Unfortunately, I had to sell my Prussian general officer helme several years ago but perhaps a member who owns a legit generals' helme could post a picture of what I am talking about to clarify things. Credit goes to R Trawnik who told me about this key difference years ago when I actually bought my generals' helme.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see a photographic comparison of this, as I really don't get the difference looking at the images in the link suggested by pointystuff???

Dang, I had been looking at this on ebay as a "one day, my pretty, one day" dream, and now it is shattered...
 
b.loree said:
The spike is the key gentlemen. This is a Bavarian spike. Prussian general officer fluted spikes have a base that comes down over the spike neck. The Bavarian ones fit flush with the spike neck as this does. That is the key to understanding the deception that is going on here. Unfortunately, I had to sell my Prussian general officer helme several years ago but perhaps a member who owns a legit generals' helme could post a picture of what I am talking about to clarify things. Credit goes to R Trawnik who told me about this key difference years ago when I actually bought my generals' helme.
Click to expand...

Thank you for clearing this out. =D>

btw ,General helmets are usually in good shape ,a garde dragoner was sometimes caught by the rain while horseback riding.
 
Here's a comparison between a Bavarien general and a Prussian general. You can see clearly the difference...
The Bavarian belonged to Prinz Alfons von Bayern.

Adler



 
My General's helmet has the trichter, so here that is (sorry I didn't notice the enameled eagle wasn't straight when I photoed this, it was turned 'upright' afterwards)



:D Ron
 
Karel, two beautiful helmets, but I'm esepcially fond of the Prince's. I can imagine him wearing it around Meunchen or at the Schloss at Hohenswangau.

:D Ron
 
Sorry for the mix up guys...I got them reversed. Unfortunately, I had to sell the Prusssian general helme years ago as well as my Bavarian officer. I had no concrete examples at hand and was going by memory. Anyway, the main thing is that now members know the difference between Prussian general and Bavarian officer spikes so that they can not be fooled.
 
And in case this is not yet totally clear, here is a Prussian general helmet: the diameter of the lower part of the spike is just a little smaller than that of the basis.



For comparison, the spike of a Hessian officer helmet (same for a Bavarian) has a "skirt" that covers the edge of the basis:

 
Thanks for the photos! That leads me to my next thought. From what I'm seeing, there are two types of Prussian and one Bavarian spike 'bottom'. Here's what I'm seeing (the first like Karel's the second a typical Bavarian and last what I have on my General a la Suite):



(sorry for the crudity of the illustration, I was doing this while my students drew). Any thoughts? Again, my Prussian War Ministry type General's Trichter has the same as Karel's and my a la Suite has the other, as 911car posted just now.. (and John's 'stubby' General)

:D Ron
 
As usual ; variations . :? :? :? different herstellers different types…
Karels general leaves no doubt ,a perfect fit. For the spike that does not cover the base one has to assume it is the spike that was delivered with the helmet by the hersteller.

however ,this is a great topic :bravo:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top