Hessen Leib Helmet and others

ccj

ccj

Well-known member
I came across this helmet while researching Hessen helmets. It’s interesting so posted for others to opine.

st.museum-digital.de

Helm (Pickelhaube) für Mannschaften oder Offiziere des Leibgarde-Infanterie-Regiment (1. Großherzogliche Hessisches) Nr. 115, Darmstadt, Hessen, Ende 19. Jahrhundert :: Museum Weißenfels - Schloss Neu-Augustusburg :: museum-digital:sachsen-anhalt

Der Helm sowie Vorder- und Nackenschirm aus Vulkanfiber. An der Stirnseite hesischer Löwe mit aufgesetzten, emaillierten Stern des Hausordens. Darüb
st.museum-digital.de st.museum-digital.de
 
The attachment of the chin strap is truly unique, I have never seen that before! Still, one of the prettiest of the Imperial helmets. (y)
 
Hello,
Nice Hessian officer helmet.
No perlring, no star for Hessian officers =>ok.
On the other hand:
---The frontal lion is a "troop" plate because the crown is not openwork. =>not good
---The chinstrap is also an M91 troop chinstrap for side posts, but here it is fixed with M1871 folding rosettes for officers, which is not normal. This chinstrap was recommended for officers, only for Pickel's "0fficier" 1915 model. Perhaps plausible, though, as a DIY solution to wartime circumstances =>joker.
115_RBA & Eigentum.JPG
The difference between an officer's helmet and a troop's helmet is more difficult for Hessians than in other provinces.
Infra, on the left, an Eigentum helmet from 115, for "Portepee"oder Fähnrich. Higher tip, M71 scale chinstrap Portepee cocades, different Order of Hesse star, openwork crown, "dragon"-style rear spine etc...

On the right, a troop helmet, for comparison.

115 couronne Eigentum.JPG115 couronne Kammer crocs.JPG
115 Eigentum Uffz Bibi.JPG
However, this is not an officer's helmet, and the schell is close to the troop model, with a wolf's tooth liner. The star of the Order of Louis, although different from that of the troop, is not enameled like that of the officers.

115_Kamer &Eigentum.JPG
115_RBA & Eigentum.JPG
 
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Beautiful helmets

On the posted link, it’s an interesting helmet and not sure if it’s wartime untouched or not. Shows to be at a museum and I understand that doesn’t mean it’s not messed with.
It’s still a looker…

Like Brian stated, one of the prettiest helmets
 
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Another great post Clovis showing the subtle differences between an issued JR 115 and the Fahnrich Eigentum helme from the same regiment. Check out the spike tips as they are different too. The same types of differences can also be found on Prussian Garde and other regimental helmets.
 
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ccj said:
Beautiful helmets

On the posted link, it’s an interesting helmet and not sure if it’s wartime untouched or not. Shows to be at a museum and I understand that doesn’t mean it’s not messed with.
It’s still a looker…

Like Brian stated, one of the prettiest helmets
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I've already had to have various incorrect descriptions of museum websites corrected. In Germany, there are very few historians who study uniforms. It is seen as militaristic and people didn’t want to have something to do with it after the ww2 (perhaps this is changing, however, because the Ukraine war has finally made people realize the need for a functioning army). In the entries on the museum pages, the notes of any predecessors were simply adopted without even checking them. However, the museum people usually react positively to the corrections. They admit that this is not their specialty and are grateful for help of collectors.
 
This is a great thread! Thanks for the deep and clear analysis Clovis. And I 100% agree Sandy - lots of questionable pieces in museums, especially if their primary focus is not military history. How many people know much about this stuff? I suspect this one was just cobbled together sometime in the past 100+ years and somehow ended up in their collection. I'll add that the front arm of the cruciform spike base appears to be held in with a flathead screw, which is certainly not normal.

That said, these guys are one of my favorite IG infantry regiments. As Charles posted - unquestionably one of the prettiest helmets!
 
I've put a photo of it here, so you can see the anomalies. Yes, Jeff R., not only is the slotted-head screw wrong on the front arm, it's also wrong on the rear arm. Well, it has the merit of existing and the 'anomalies' are not irremediable, as these are removable accessories.

115 0ff jug no good.jpg

To enhance this post, you can see period photos of year-old enlisted men wearing Eigentum helmets but not officers. 115 Eigentum 1jähriger.jpg115LIR JeanAst PatriceLamy.GIF115LIR Musicien coc_ sur jugulaire.GIF115 LIR 1Jährig Eigentum.GIF

In fact, for the 'Extra-Helm', among the Hessians, the only exclusivity reserved for officers was the star of Louis, enamelled black with gold lettering.

115LIR 0ff 8500€ 2021.GIF
 
Wow, Someone must have seen your post and ran over to Helmuts and jumped on that Officers Helm that he had in stock.

Its now on reserve , he should give ya a few bucks for the free advertising. At 8500 euros he certainly has it in truck loads (y)

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Yes, sorry,🤕 I can show an Eigentum and a LIR115 troop but unfortunately I don't have (yet 😜 ) an officer to show off. So I had to advertise for Helmut.😇
 
My small contribution. Likely Einjährig-Freiwilliger, and a good example of what deep pockets could buy for enlisted men (such as those in Clovis' great photos above). Gorgeous dimensional, frosty wappen. And unlike most eigentum helms, this one can be dated since our guy lined the sweatband with a carefully folded newspaper to tighten the fit - it's dated May 22, 1904!

LR115 1.jpgLR115 2.jpg LR115 3.jpgLR115 4.jpg
 
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Your helmet is very nice and the paper inside does touch. Would an NCO also been able to wear this quality?
 
Jeff R said:
My small contribution. Likely Einjährig-Freiwilliger, and a good example what deep pockets could buy for enlisted men (such as those in Clovis' great photos above). Gorgeous dimensional, frosty wappen. And unlike most eigentum helms, this one can be dated since our guy lined the sweatband with a carefully folded newspaper to tighten the fit - it's dated May 22, 1904!

View attachment 39769View attachment 39770 View attachment 39771View attachment 39772
Click to expand...
Very nice helmet .
And it takes deep pockets to buy it today !
Steve
 
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