Leib Garde Hussar Enlisted Pelzmutze

cptbob

Active member
This is the one Pelzmutze I have in my collection. I got the LGH fangschnur separately and I'd be shocked if it is not a repro. But it was cheap and makes a nice placeholder until I can get the real thing. :) Hope everyone has a great weekend!

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cptbob

Active member
On top (under the Kolpak) are LGHR stamps and 14 which I assume is the year. The Kolpak is also stamped.
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b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
Obviously, an amazing piece of History with incredible markings which totally confirm authenticity! I can not comment on the fangschnur as I have never had one in the collection. Perhaps Steve McF can help out. Those markings also need to be placed in our data bank for future generations of collectors who will carry on with the preservation of these Historical objects. My opinion only but I think that we all collect for that purpose.
 

911car

Well-known member
Thank you for showing this great item. Busbies are seldom seen here, let alone nice ones (not sure about the special Fangschnur without seeing it in the flesh; if a regular one looked like this, kind of fluffy, I would say it is for sure a copy; were some LGHR cords made of this material?...).
The only surprise is that the chinscales are for an officer. Did the busby come like this?
It should ne nice, too, to see pictures of the inside.
 

b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
Having looked more closely at your photos I would venture an opinion that the looped cord part of this parade ensemble is original. It looks the same as the one on my Saxe HR 20 OR’s busby. The parade part of this...woven paddles and tassels looks different and I don’t believe that it is original. My opinion only, we really need members who have original examples to comment here.
 

911car

Well-known member
b.loree said:
Having looked more closely at your photos I would venture an opinion that the looped cord part of this parade ensemble is original. It looks the same as the one on my Saxe HR 20 OR’s busby. The parade part of this...woven paddles and tassels looks different and I don’t believe that it is original. My opinion only, we really need members who have original examples to comment here.

There is no doubt that the regular Fangschnur here is original. It is only the LGHR specific cord with the paddles that is most likely a copy.
 

cptbob

Active member
Thanks everyone. The chinscales were on there when I got it. I was a little curious about that too. As far as the LGH fangschnur, I would think that an elite guard unit (one of whose functions was to look good on parade) would only have high quality gear. The cord on the LGH fangschnur looks like a cheap alternative. Here are some photos of the inside. The manufacturers stamp is pretty faded but I think the 3rd line is "Potsdam"

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Wappen loops

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Stamp on inside of liner. The only thing I can make out is what looks like 1918
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I think your fangschnurr is from the right era but its Dutch.
It´s from a M1865 Shako, worn by Grenadiers.
I see them often be sold as German Husar one´s (out of ignorance or gain ) but they are more coarse than the german ones.
 

Tony without Kaiser

Departed
Staff member
911car said:
//The only surprise is that the chinscales are for an officer. Did the busby come like this?//
Rivets are visible, so unless those are officer M15 removable chinscales, they must be Mannschaften held on with split brad officer rosettes?

That really is marvelous display. Well done.
 

911car

Well-known member
Tony without Kaiser said:
911car said:
//The only surprise is that the chinscales are for an officer. Did the busby come like this?//
Rivets are visible, so unless those are officer M15 removable chinscales, they must be Mannschaften held on with split brad officer rosettes?

That really is marvelous display. Well done.

Tony, my immediate thought was that they are of the wartime officer removable type, hooked to regular M91 posts. I did not think of the possibility you mentioned, since the busby looks like a bona fide late enlisted model... you still might be right though.
 

cptbob

Active member
It appears as if it has enlisted posts. Do these look like the removable officer's chinscales?

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cptbob

Active member
2nd.Leibhusar said:
See Previous photos

Is the 2nd one a LGHR fangschnur? The one I have has a slide similar to the top picture. I thought that fangschnur design was unique but I guess the LGH copied it. :) Awesome information! Thanks!!
 

Tony without Kaiser

Departed
Staff member
Wow! Those are absolutely officer M15 chinscales, very rare and very expensive.

What has happened (I suggest) is that someone has placed officer M15 scales on your Pelzmütze to 'replace' the standard M94 Cavalry chinscales. Fortunate you. I believe Bruno would agree?

The former are impossible to find, the latter are found easily. Once you find standard M94 Cavalry chinscales you will have some very desirable spare parts. :thumb up:
 

cptbob

Active member
Thanks Tony, and thanks to everyone else too! I learned a lot over the last couple days! Including finding that stamp on the backside of the liner flap. It appears to say B.5.A.1. 1918 and then I. (or L maybe, the ink is a little runny). The M94 enlisted chinscales will definitely be on the "Too Find" list! Thanks again all!!
 

911car

Well-known member
No doubt, Tony...
Here are similar ones (with 3 rivets) on a wartime officer helmet, together with the M15 detachable spike (note the five aeration holes, like in an enlisted spike).

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cptbob

Active member
I saw this LGHR enlisted Pelzmutze on Helmut Wietze today. I thought it was interesting in that it also has the officer's chinscales.
https://www.weitze.com/militaria/21/Preussen_Pelzmuetze_fuer_Mannschaften_im_Leib_Garde_Husaren_Regiment__379421.html
 

argonne

Active member
cptbob said:
I saw this LGHR enlisted Pelzmutze on Helmut Wietze today. I thought it was interesting in that it also has the officer's chinscales.
https://www.weitze.com/militaria/21/Preussen_Pelzmuetze_fuer_Mannschaften_im_Leib_Garde_Husaren_Regiment__379421.html

This Weitze headgear piece seems to be a OYV Pelzmütze. EM Feldzeichen and cockade. Officers chinscales with rosettes fixations (no side posts M91) were also used by OYV.

Here another M15 officer helmet with those typical chinscales and M15 spike, this time a bavarian one, worn by Leutnant Otto BÖGL, 4/KBJR19, taken prisoner on the 28.6.17 in the Oppy wood (northern France, near Arras):







La jugulaire est démontable par simple pivotage autour des tourillons:









Philippe
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