Line eagle on a Jaeger zu Pferde

P

pjm

Member
I have a grey fitted 1916 dated Jaeger zu Pferde helmet with a line eagle. It appears to be the only eagle that has been on the helmet. I know line eagles were used originally but this seems like a late date for one to be in use. It also has the large cockades.

Could this be for the 8th Regiment or was it used for Trumpeters or otherwise?

I saw a Husar Rgt marked metal helmet years ago but I think it was a cuirassier and it was identified as a trumpeter.
 
A JzP helmet with a line eagle should be a Staabstordonnanz helmet, if I remember correctly. A very rare helmet indeed. Those have existed in the 1895 version; I did not know that 1915 models had been made. If it is authentic it is a very valuable helmet.
 
I'd be happy to send pictures but I can't seem to post one here through my photobucket account but here are a couple of links. Apparently the site does not permit direct uploading from my computer. There is over all wear to the grey but the eagle finish seems to match that of the spike and strap parts and there's no shadow of a dragoon eagle.

From what I've read, the 8th used the line eagle on ersatz helmets so I'm wondering if they also wore it on the standard metal helmet.

for more images: [email protected]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g131/paulebay/jpl.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g131/paulebay/jpl2.jpg
 
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posted for PJM
 
Thanks for posting the pictures. They're not the best but should give and idea.

The front plate is attached with a single strip of leather that goes through the 2 loops on the eagle back.
 
I've seen 3 or 4 of them over the years like this one of yours w/the line eagles on them. I've also seen one example where there was never any blued finish on it and with the line eagle. Just like a currasier helmet, polished steel, but w/a line eagle on it, and gray trim. Straight out of the woodwork, looking like a currasier helmet, only a j z p helmet body.

Alan
 
Any thoughts on unit association? or other documented or possible use? Band, trompeter or other?

Value?
 
I did not know that 1915 models had been made.
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I am with Bruno and Karel on this. Functionally they should not have existed in 1915.

The eighth were presented in a famous picture on page 79 of Larcade volume 2 but they were wearing KUrrasier helmets.

Unlike the Napoleonic cavalry head gear for musicians and trumpeters differed only in color of plume.

Otherwise, I have no idea.
 
Here's an idea: Could this helmet have been one of the "liberty loan" types that were assembled (with a wrong frontplate) and given out to bond buyers during and after the wartime?

I recall that the Wisconsin Veteran's Museum in Madison has a pre-war configuration JzP helmet complete w/chinscales, and with a brass line style eagle on it, and the helmet is on display.

The one JzP helmet I saw w/no bluing on the shell that I mentioned earlier, had a wartime line eagle on it and was found by a friend of mine about 8 yrs ago here in Iowa, and it came out of the attic of a house that way. But I don't know the history of how it got in the attic, such as if it was a vet bring-back, or if it was a liberty loan give out piece.

Alan
 
Joe,

Great Liberty Loan sheet! Yours is only the 2nd example I've seen. I passed one up a year ago that a dealer from New England had. Unfortunately I didn't want to pay the $125 asking price he had on it.

Alan
 
Well, the eagle is a perfect fit and the grey paint is consistant throughout - on the spike, eagle, chin strap parts, etc. I'm not sure if a parts helmet would be so well matched.

My other JzP helmet isn't unit marked either. It's a pretty standard affair, also a 1916 made piece but a different maker and it has the small cockades. I'm not sure what percentage if metal helmets were marked.

There's info on Kaiser's Bunker that ersatz JzP helmets for the 8th regiment had line eagles: "Jäger zu Pferde Ersatz Metalhelme appear pressed from a single sheet steel with artificial rivets on the rear and spike base. These helmets are normally marked only to 8JzP. Interestingly, these Jäger zu Pferde Ersatz helmets carry normal line eagle Wappen and not the Dragoner pattern Wappen."

If they also had standard issue helmets perhaps they used the line eagle as well.
 
Hi Paul,

"There's info on Kaiser's Bunker that ersatz JzP helmets for the 8th regiment had line eagles: "Jäger zu Pferde Ersatz Metalhelme appear pressed from a single sheet steel with artificial rivets on the rear and spike base. These helmets are normally marked only to 8JzP."

Referring to the above quote: It's quite unfortunate that your JzP helmet is not unit marked. If it were unit marked, and to the 8th JzP, it would certainly end all the speculation.

I'm just a young "pup" in this collecting of spike helmets, compared to many of the old pro's on here. :) After 28-yrs of collecting them, I've seen firsthand a lot of weird stuff that came right out of a basement or attic, from a veteran, or the family of a vet. And I've witnessed many unusual helmets in museums also, both on display, and back in storage. There's almost an endless variety of non-regulation stuff out there to be viewed, with no apparent or readily found answer as to why the parts are the way they are found on the helmet.

Again, it is too bad the helmet is not unit marked, which would answer most remaining questions. :(

All the Best,

Alan
 
911car said:
A JzP helmet with a line eagle should be a Staabstordonnanz helmet, if I remember correctly. A very rare helmet indeed. Those have existed in the 1895 version; I did not know that 1915 models had been made. If it is authentic it is a very valuable helmet.
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From the Wehrgeschichtliches Museum, Rastaat:

Baden-MH.jpg


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Chas.
 
amazing... very handsome Stabsordonanz helmet with the large cockades as mine - and definitely not a Libery Loan gift.

Is it unit marked?

Thanks for the post, Lost Skeleton. I've never seen a JzP helmet with a Baden plate.

As I mentioned earlier, many years ago I saw a metal helmet with Husar Regiment marking and was told it was for a trompeter. There are certainly more (regulation) things in heaven and earth than dreamt of in our imaginations.
 
Well that is quite interesting! I got to discover today that my rewrite disk of the Rastaat collection now has some neat things that my daughter put on it. Unfortunately no helmet pictures left. This will make me dig deeper a little bit!
 
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