Looking for 5th Dragoon Guards Helmet

pebceb

Member
If anyone has or comes across a 5th Dragoon Guards helmet like the one in the picture I would be interested in buying it.

My Great Grandfather served with them.

Thanks.

Peter
 

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Tony without Kaiser

Departed
Staff member
That's marvelous! To such an esteemed Regiment. Dig into the UK dealer's sites, and the UK auctions. You might get lucky.

I come from a family of German/Ukrainian turnip farmers. I keep a turnip on display to remind me of our proud military heritage. First one in uniform was me.
 

pebceb

Member
So I have a quality reproduction ordered through a UK company. May be awhile before I get it. Once I do I'll post pictures.

The attached picture is one of their 2nd DG helmets. I normally don't like repros but when needs must. Only other repro I have is a Fallschirmjager helmet for my display given the exorbitant prices for real ones.

Cheers.

Peter

2nd DG.jpeg
 

Tony without Kaiser

Departed
Staff member
// I normally don't like repros but when needs must. Only other repro I have is a Fallschirmjager helmet for my display given the exorbitant prices for real ones. //

They are expensive. Here is my M38 Peter. Obtained directly from a Canadian veteran many years ago.
 

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chinstrap

Member
Hi Peter,

Just sent you some information. Thought it was going as a pm, but seems to have gone into ‘conversations’ - don’t know if that’s the same thing in the new set up.

Patrick
 

pebceb

Member
It did come as a PM Patrick, and you're right, conversations is the new name for messages.

Cheers.

Peter
 

pebceb

Member
Thanks to Patrick I now have an authentic 5th Dragoon Guards ORs helmet on the way from the UK.

I am very excited to say the least.

Cheers Patrick!

Peter
 

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chinstrap

Member
Great that Peter got this helmet. It was one I spotted, and would have gone for myself if I hadn’t had one already. It’s in really good condition and better than mine!

Patrick
 

pebceb

Member
So the helmet arrived today and I am very happy with it.

Aside from the white paint spots inside (which I will probably leave as-is) the only issue that I would like to fix is the chin chain. Someone at some point has replaced the original leather (which I assume rotted away) with some kind of leatherette and believe it or not a layer of velcro (soft side facing out). I want to replace this with real leather and was wondering if anyone has done this?

It seems like looking at pictures on the internet that it is a thin leather that is sewn to the cin chain at various points. Here are some pictures. I would appreciate any advice and if anyone can post some good pictures of what the chin chain's leather is supposed to look like it would be appreciated.

Okay the last photo I peeled back the velcro layer and can see what they did. I am assuming that if I get the right kind of leather and the right coloured thread I should be able to do the same.

So my questions are:

What colour is the leather (and the thread)?

How thick?

Is it only one layer or two?

Thanks.

PeterIMG_1617 (2).jpegIMG_1618 (2).jpegIMG_1619 (1).jpegIMG_1620 (1).jpegIMG_1622 (1).jpegIMG_1623 (1).jpegIMG_1625 (1).jpegIMG_1626.jpeg
 
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pebceb

Member
Okay I decided to remove the offending leatherette and velcro to get ready to add new leather once I figure out colour etc.

It is about 3/4 of an inch wide and I have this as a sort of template for the holes for when I resew new leather. Been looking all over the net too to see examples and some seems to have two thin strips back to back, and black seems to be the colour for the most part.

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b.loree

Administrator
Staff member
Peter unfortunately, I have never worked on one of these scales but for thin leather, I would suggest vintage ladies long opera style gloves. This is what I use on haube scales, it is thin and soft (kid). They are often white but can be easily dyed black. If you know Dave Hiorth, of TO Military Antiques you could call him for information, he probably has one of this style of helmets in stock.
 

pebceb

Member
Thanks Brian and appreciate the pictures when you can post them Patrick.

I have an old repro chin strap that was on my first Pickelhaube that I replaced with a better one that is fairly thin and pliable that I am going to try first. Only one layer but I think it might work.

At least I can get some practice doing the daunting sewing job. I may still try and get some of the type of leather Brian recommends later on if this one didn’t work.

I’ll post pictures of my finished work.

It is black and that seems to be the most common colour I have seen on the Internet.

Cheers.

Peter
 

pebceb

Member
Okay about an hour and a half of painful sewing.

I'm pretty happy with the result.

A couple of lessons learned.

  • It takes a lot of thread so make sure you have a really long piece or you have to keep re-threading the needle and hiding the little knots behind the brass rings. I planned to have enough to do one side at a time and ended up repthreading at least twice on each side.

  • It is easy to "shorten" the chain chain as you go. I had the leather reaching from a couple of rings at each end when I laid it out and when I got to the other end in the first side I had a bit of spare leather. Not a problem for me as it is still long enough. But if you want to get maximum length you would have to be even more patient and go a lot slower to ensure you kept the tension on the chain.
It would look better with a second layer of leather over the single one but I think I'm going to stay with this for now. Might be something for the future.

Looks so much better without the awful leatherette and velcro version someone did in the past.

Cheers.

Peter
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