Lost Skeleton’s Guide to the Pickelhaube Helmbezug

[Cousette]

The sewing, the thread, the technique it is my speciality.
To redo as before is my knowledge.

You want of sheets grunschilf, identical, made with the techniques of the XIX century, not reacting to the U.V.
I can sell to you.
You want one covers helmet as 73 Ir, no concerns it sets two hours.

It is necessary to be realistic, the price of these cover helmets in shops in France: 750 $, allows to realize copies absolutely completed for 180 $.

And that in I say perfect, it makes say that 100 % of people are going to say to you that they are authentic.

I have one of these cover helmets in hands, it is certain that if there were no figures sewn zigzag and some modern glue behind figures, I would have well said with a reserve for materials.

It is only the feeling, but when we have of fabrics ancient in the hand all day long, we manage to make make the difference.

For me figures are tins

Cover them helmets are doubtful, it is for it that I want to make a research for Cs137 to see if one of the constituting is modern.

In France some shout that Cs137, does not work, but I reassure you it is the champion of the bad faith. And he it in some to sell.

If really these persons had of real certainty, he should say, the result is beforehand known: before 1945.

He would not say the science is a trickery.

He not it in that one drunkards to say that breath test does not work. The one who drank nothing is the first one to want to blow.

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

Cousette,
vous employez un programme de traduction oui? Écrivez ainsi les phrases très courtes et tres simples. Les longues phrases compliquées ne traduisent pas. Cordialement, Tony

 

[Gustaf]

Again, I'm not concerned whether anyone can (or should) be convinced these covers are genuine. What bothers me is the wholly speculative, dismissive attitude refuting the enterprise, ingenuity, and invention of our industrialized antecedents. As for a "Digital" sewing machine being prerequisite for producing a uniform zigzag stitch…

Now, that's what I call hard to believe.

This is a very valid comment, remember, it was technology of the 1940s and 1950s that took us to the moon and back.

I do believe that any discussion is good, even if we do not all agree when the discussion is over, as it gets us to look closer at the items we handle.

Anything can be reproduced, and the more we understand, the better prepared we are to see the bad ones that we will run into.

Best wishes
Gus

 

[JR92]

Hello,

Joe, about your question :

"The example below has hooks to attach the maneuver band to the helmet cover. I have no idea what it connected to."


they were connected like this, here on an Ueberzug from 1912, on these sewn "little reins"

 

[Lost Skeleton]

He would not say the science is a trickery.

He not it in that one drunkards to say that breath test does not work. The one who drank nothing is the first one to want to blow.

Good Heavens!

For you non-physicists out there, the radioactive isotopes Caesium-137 and Caesium-134 were initially released into the environment via nuclear weapons testing. The former has a half-life of 30.07 years. If I follow Cousette, anything made prior to 1945 should be Cs-137 free. I beg your pardon? Anything exposed to Cs-137 would be irradiated by the isotope regardless of when it was made or when it was exposed (don't forget Chernobyl).

For example, irradiate a rock with Cs-137 (simple enough to do). How old is a rock? It certainly precedes the A-bomb to the tune of 4.54 billion years.

The environment is in crisis, the global economy in collapse, and, for some, this nonsense takes priority. Clearly, the thing to do is consult Octopus Oracle Paul.

After all, he's batting 1000.

Pax vobiscum.

Oh, and thanks for turning a well-intentioned web reference into a referendum on collector paranoia.

 

[stephane_avesnes]

Mister Cousette exposed the same theory as Mister Boyer (same personne ? ) did on the French forum (HM) and all these points were refuted by "scientific" based observations by the most prominent members, those who really collect for many years and owe quite a number of samples.
In previous posts, we've had this member explaining that no camouflaged helmet was original, that the Guard stahlhelms (with this white/black shield) were all fakes, that white leather stahlhelm liners were all made in csech republic and so on, ....
It took 20 pages on the field covers for spiked helmet post to finally state that these 15, 51, 55 and 73 JR field covers were most probably original including the red numbers.
I then personnaly suspect some personal conflict behind this obstination, or a conflict with the forum as a whole, based maybe on the fact that "Cousette" was kicked out of the forum some weeks ago. I have to say that I'm not a moderator on this forum, I just visit from times to times and was not at all involved in the dispute that lead Cousette to be banned (before reappearing under another pseudo ?).
I warn my American fellow collectors and friends, I had the pleasure to meet some of them at this wonderful show in Louisville, to take with great caution the assertions made by the member(s) quoted above. When we tried to verify their assertions, we received either no answer or quite complicated and meaningless pseudo-scientific answers that no one understood....:???:
there's another option : A fake dealer and maker is trying to make new fakes.... as perfect as possible. He then starts an argument on a famous forum and after 2 weeks gets all the information available and all the "secret" details that allow old collectors to sort original/fakes. I remind you that Cousette describes himself as a maker of re-enacting equipment......
for this reason, I stopped participating in the post and feeding it with close up pictures of original items.
Kind regards from France
Stephane
imperialhelmets.com

 

[Cousette]

He would not say the science is a trickery.

He not it in that one drunkards to say that breath test does not work. The one who drank nothing is the first one to want to blow.

Good Heavens!

For you non-physicists out there, the radioactive isotopes Caesium-137 and Caesium-134 were initially released into the environment via nuclear weapons testing. The former has a half-life of 30.07 years. If I follow Cousette, anything made prior to 1945 should be Cs-137 free. I beg your pardon? Anything exposed to Cs-137 would be irradiated by the isotope regardless of when it was made or when it was exposed (don't forget Chernobyl).

For example, irradiate a rock with Cs-137 (simple enough to do). How old is a rock? It certainly precedes the A-bomb to the tune of 4.54 billion years.

The environment is in crisis, the global economy in collapse, and, for some, this nonsense takes priority. Clearly, the thing to do is consult Octopus Oracle Paul.

After all, he's batting 1000.

Pax vobiscum.

Oh, and thanks for turning a well-intentioned web reference into a referendum on collector paranoia.

Cs137 does not exist in the nature before 1945.

Only one rocks containing of Cs137 are eruptive rocks after 1945.

We look not for on-surface Cs137 but for that in the material.

Thus no concerns, it works...

At present the discussion in France is:

If we let bring new elements counter zigzag cover helmet, we leave the forum....

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Cs137 does not exist in the nature before 1945.

Only one rocks containing of Cs137 are eruptive rocks after 1945.

We look not for on-surface Cs137 but for that in the material.

Thus no concerns, it works...

At present the discussion in France is:

If we let bring new elements counter zigzag cover helmet, we leave the forum....

Test away, amigo, and be sure to publish your findings in Reports on Progress in Physics. The scientific world waits with bated breath. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a life to attend to.

 

[b.loree]

Back to reality. I have posted pics of this JR 52 uberzug before however, this was prior to the present discussion about stitching. This uberzug was on an M15 marked to the Regt. The dealer refused to sell me the helmet but did part with the uberzug. Never could understand why and it really annoyed me! Obviously, the numbers and leather spike renforcement are hand stitched. The hooks are steel not brass

Sorry guys, I screwed up on posting foto #2 when I originally did this...got it right now though.

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Back to reality.

:bravo:

 

[stephane_avesnes]

PRE WAR OR EARLY WAR FIELD COVERS NUMBERS :
pictures speak for themselves... more pics on http://www.imperialhelmets.com/helmet-field-covers/







A RIR 119 THAT CAME COMPLETE WITH ITS COVER:


















A JR 106 THAT CAME COMPLETE WITH ITS COVER:

 

[Lost Skeleton]

Thank you for posting the truly excellent specimens, Steve. Are we to infer that friend Cousette believes these did "not exist in the nature before 1945?"

For those obsessed with thread counts, micrometers, radiocarbon 14C and/or K-Ar dating, or (groan) C-137 short lived isotope counting (T age = ln(A 0/ A s) x 1/λ), check out this side by side comparison:

Please consider the following:

1. imperialhelmets.com cover (left), Lost Skeleton cover (right).

2. imperialhelmets.com cover photographed on helmet, Lost Skeleton cover
photographed flat.

3. imperialhelmets.com photo color adjusted to highlight zigzag stitching,
Lost Skeleton cover photo not adjusted.

4. The number "5" on the imperialhelmets.com cover looks elongated
because the felt appears to have been stretched slightly when it was
applied. Though machine sewn, the process was not automated,
variations are to be expected.

5. Lost Skeleton cover photographed with an Olympus SP-350 digital
camera (AF Zoom 8.0-24.0mm 1:2.8-4.9 lens) at super macro setting.
I have no information regarding the imperialhelmets.com equipment.

Either they are both genuine or both fake, but they are clearly both the same.

I know where I stand on this "debate."

 

[stephane_avesnes]

My only comment : thanks for your nice comments
Steve

 

[Gustaf]

This has been an outstanding discussion, it would seem that the argument that the zigzag sewing is suspect can be put to rest, as there are too many examples that have well adjusted zigzag stitching, and not only do Steve's and Chas's IR 15 look to be sewn by the same machine, they appear to have been sewn by the same person.
Best
Gus

 

[stephane_avesnes]

I have always considered that original pre-war and early war numbers HAD to be sewn in zig zag.... ! only war made numbers are sewn with simpler techniques, in the field probably,

 

[Lost Skeleton]

My only comment : thanks for your nice comments

You are more than welcome, Steve.

I just got around to reading the WA discussion to which Joe provided a link on Wednesday, 30 June 2010. I was merely being glib when I referenced Carbon 14 and Potassium Argon dating above. Now, I see that Monsieur Cousette was actually advocating 14C dating in that discussion.

Time to set the record straight.

I hold a B.A. in anthropology with a concentration in paleontology and archaeology. I am experienced in radiocarbon and radiometric chronometric dating and dendrochronology. These are the facts:

14C is utilized to determine the age of carbonaceous material in the fossil record up to 58,000 years BP (before present) with a calibration curve that can be as inaccurate as 11,000 years BP. Obviously, that's a long time before Pickelhaube field covers.

K-Ar radiometric dating, of which our expert friend apparently has no knowledge, is actually irrelevant to our discussion as it is employed to determine the age of rocks and minerals more than 100,000 years old, and, subsequently, the age of fossils contained within that strata.

Since my original comments on 137Cs, I've been boning up on this thermonuclear byproduct, whose peak value is actually 1963 ± 2 years. 137Cs "dating" is conducted exclusively on sediment. It is a mobile isotope, producing unreliable results.

Beyond testing for the presence of anachronistic synthetic fibers, comparison with known original examples remains the only legitimate alternative. The rest is double-talk.

I'm convinced the arguments against contemporary (period) zigzag stitching are baseless and false.

Finally, I'm more than a little ticked that a period cloth "replicator" with selfish motives, an agenda, and a completely screwy take on science, can turn rational thought on its head and, then, completely vanish when his infantile bluff is called.

Good riddance!!!

 

[stephane_avesnes]

I like your last comments and I'm actually loughing

 

[joerookery]

Joe, about your question :

"The example below has hooks to attach the maneuver band to the helmet cover. I have no idea what it connected to."

Thank you so very much Jean-Pierre I finally fixed the website.

 

[b.loree]

Well Chas...you sure set the last nail in that coffin!! Excellent. I think we are truly back to reality. Selfishly, I still wish some big ass collector in Europe, the US, anywhere could help ID my Hessen Arty 61 uberzug. I have posted pics on the forum but to no avail. Both Chas and Tony have handled it. It is authentic. There must be some one out there, that has a similar style of uberzug marked to a different unit even.

 

[Cousette]

Just for you on actual copy of Schilfgrün fabric, made with only natural fiber and 19's technics.

And a comment about his picture :

Normaly the fabrics number would be made with a punch and be identical and symetrical...

Those 15 have been cutted up with shears (You took a french officer trouser, you made a paper shap, and you stick on the shap, and lets go).

You are right lost skeletton the physical datation is no for this year, the only way is to know all the techniques of the counterfeiters, and for it I am an encyclopedia.