Mecklemburg Strelitz EM Spiked helmet

S

stephane_avesnes

New member
Picked up in Germany, fresh for the attic, never touched, just marked BA IX but cannot fit any other plate than the very specific Mecklemburg Strelitz, missing chin strap and cockades, do you like it ? :D

























The spike is for the I and III bataillon of the Grenadier Regiment 89, while this helmet from the II bataillon should wear a normal spike (unscrewable)... The quartermaster was running out of spikes ? Have you seen any picture showing a Mecklemburg Strelitz soldier wearing a spiked helmet with Mecklemburg Schwerin spike ? Funny detail :D

Steve
imperialhelmets.com
 
Steve, Félicitations !

Left, (I & III Bn) 1. Großherzoglich Mecklenburgisches Grenadier-Regt. Nr.89 (Schwerin) . Right, (II Bn) 1. Großherzoglich Mecklenburgisches Grenadier-Regt. Nr.89 (Neustrelitz)

GR89.jpg
 
Hi Tony, thanks for your words, that's one of the rarest infantry spiked helmets. I know only 2 others in France, there's maybe more since we do not know all the collectors and all the collections. There's one in Ingolstadt museum, none in Brussels or Paris. :)
Steve
imperialhelmets.com
 
Hi

Shouldnt this (Strelitz type) have a none fluted smooth spike?
with Schwerine type having a fluted spike?

Not very sure on this.
 
Hi Newbe, yes you're right but I underlined this detail at the end of the post, after the pics, please read until the end. I found the helmet as is, I plan to replace the flutted spike by a non flutted, that's the regulation. Now, I see so many war-time expedients that I suppose that the helmet was issued as is, due to the shortage in headgear. That's why I ask if someone has pics showing GR 89 II B Landser during ww1. Maybe it has been a common pratcise in this bataillon ? It's a kind of ersatz in a certain way. I show on my website site (headgear/infantry) a GR 115 re-issued to the artillery with a ball instead of a spike, and that helmet was found in an attic in Burgundy by a friend of mine. have a nice day ! :D
steve
 
This helmet appears to have the wrong spike but with the cover as indicated by the marks on the helmet and the Saxon love for the larger spike and with war time expedience any thing is possible. I think the spike has always been with this helmet and the indication of the cover forgoes the absolute conclusion the spike and helmet didnt come together.
Jerry
 
Thanks for your reactions and contributions :)
I did not pay attention to the cover marks actually, I'm going to look at the helmet differently now, with this perspective :-?
I have also a questioning on this spike..... considering that the high spike is more prestigious than the short one, I wonder if some Unter-offizier wouldn't have tried to grab one and replace his regulation short one ? The quality of this helmet, almost mint, leads me to this assomption that it was issued to a junior NCO..... I have some examples in my collection of mint helmets marked with "Unteroffizier + name" :)
 
Once again, being the idiot here.... Am I missing something or some photos of a cover aren't showing up for me?

Was fluting in a spike significant as a display of rank or unit? If not, then I can understand a soldier purchasing one, or a wartime lack of plain spikes creating the use of one... but if it's unit / rank specific, then I doubt just anybody could use one or that QM would issue it; preferring to leave the helmet sans spike. To me, it would be like me putting on Airborne wings just because I think they look good on my uniform. But, if it's like buying a pair of jump boots to spruce up a uniform, then I wonder that everybody didn't do so.

Again, cool helmet.

:D Ron
 
Hi Ron,
what we mean is that there are two main explanations for the fact that the spike is the flutted, larger model, for the 1st and 3rd Bataillon of the Grenadier Regiment 89 (and the whole 90), while the plate indicates a 2 nd bataillon of the GR89, normally fitted with a standard spike.
- first hypothesys : war-time, lack of adequate spike and issue of the remaining ones, here a flutted one
- second hypothesys : the larger, flutted spike is more popular and some NCOs, enjoying a looser discipline due to the war, wear it instead of the regulation one...

I found in the 80s a nice ball-top helmet, a Saxon, if I remember well. Unfortunately the helmet had been messed with and the ball had been changed or fixed. It was broken (just unsolded) and higher. I found a regulation ball and changed it. I kept the helmet a while and decided to part with it since it was original but not born as is. I still have this modified ball, I fixed it, it's a bit higher than normal. Many years latter, I started guessing that my helmet was absolutely original, that it was a period modification, due to the fashion of high spikes and balls. Jean Louis Larcade explains that in his books, before 1914 officers were engaged in a competition where the winner was the one with the highest spike. I guess than junior NCOs tried also to be up to date .... I still have the ball, here's a pic, you see the difference.

Before giving this latest find a modification, by placing a regulation spike (I have 2-3 in a box nearby), I would like to be sure not to make a mistake

:D
 
An amazing find indeed, Stephane. I also know two of them in France. One found in an attic in the outskirts of Nantes. The other one found - with no spike - at a gun show in Belgium.
Photo-077.jpg
 
911car said:
An amazing find indeed, Stephane. I also know two of them in France. One found in an attic in the outskirts of Nantes. The other one found - with no spike - at a gun show in Belgium.
Click to expand...

I am very confident there will never be one in my Imperial display room. I will have to be happy with photos and knowing that collector friends have been very fortunate indeed. :salute:
 
Thanks Tony! (I'd rather have the fluted spike on my helmet if I were around back then! .... and would have spent the money.)

:D Ron
 
My two cents Stephane......leave the spike as is. I do polish these helmets (once) and restore them but you know the provenance and we both know that due to wartime conditions and personal preferences, there are many exceptions to the rules. Can you read the makers stamp inside of the shell? If so could you please send a foto of it to Joe so that we can add it to our data base. I doubt that we have one from this Regiment. A great helmet! Congratulations. B
 
Hi Brian, I posted a pic showing the maker stamp but I will try to read the name, and provide it to the forum "data base" !
Hi Tony, don't say that you will not find this kind of helmet, you already have very scarce ones and nobody knows what will come tomorrow. I was pretty sure to have great difficulties to find this one, and I was prepared to be very very patient, and it arrived without notice :)
I search for others, that are less scarce, and I don't find them .... Collecting is a nice passion, we have to learn how to be patient, and we must be confident, there are still many nice pieces in attics, in families, in old collections, and some may come to our displays..... That's the phylosophy of this category "latest find" :D
I gave a look yesterday at the plate, it had never been undone, It's marked in the helmet, I'll take some pics and post them to show the recto of the plate, to have some comparison !
Can anyone post some good pics of a Mecklemburg Schwerin EM 1895 ? With close up on the spike ?
have a nice day !
Steve
website : imperialhelmets.com
 
Well R1, as usual, they don't get much better than your example! I am chuckling to myself as I type this...Sir, you do have one hell of a collection. What else can be said but thank you for sharing. B
 
a very nice Mecklemburg GR 90 ! Thanks for sharing it :D I wonder why these Mecklemburg are so hard to find :(
If we look in term of statistics, there were almost 2 regiments, GR 89 (I and III B) and the whole GR 90..... that's not a lot but I mean that should leave a number of helmets on the market ..... and we all know that these birds do not appear quite often in the militaria show nor on ebay.... We have the same phenomenon with the JR 33-34, they shouldn't be so scarce, we find so many GR 109, GR 115, JR 94 and 95, some JR91, JR 92, JR93, JB14....... and very few GR 89-90 ..... Why ? did those units fight mainly on the eastern front ? I don't think so, they were in Champagne and in other places in France. Maybe they had a quiet sector and suffered less losses than others, that's possible. I havn't got the history of the GR 89 and 90, if someone had the possibility to check that point, it could help understand why the souvenirs of these 2 units vanished in the air after the war ...
thanks again for sharing, would you have some more pics, showing the marks for instance ? The helmet is in very good condition Bravo !
:D
Steve
website : imperialhelmets.com
 
I think the rarity of these helmets MIGHT have to do with location. Many of the non-unit marked helmets in the US came from a warehouse Koblenz, which held something like 40,000 helmets. These were sent to the states for war bond prizes (I've one in my collection marked to a 'winner' in Texas).
US soldiers were also almost addictive in their quest for prizes (souvenirs) to bring home and did a lot of trading after the war in the occupied zones and such. Others brought 'finds' back during WWII... a dachboden find as such, and maybe even traded for them after the war.
Also, Mechlemburg is deep in the former DDR, so some 50 years of trading was missed by western collectors. I didn't see a single helmet last summer in the area shops, so beyond that I really don't have a ready explanation. Maybe they're all still in the attics of the soldiers' descendants!
Again, all speculation, since Saxony is also deep in the former DDR, but those helmets are more common, so perhaps it is a factor of numbers of soldiers in the lines. (???) Any other thoughts folks?

:D Ron
 
Interesting, you're right, all the material behind the iron curtain was isolated from the western trade.... that's certainly part of the explanation, thanks for your comments,

here are some more detailed pics, the plate looks really mint, I found those small wooden segments inside the hooks of the central part, the hooks had been bent to make a stronger hold of the central round into the star, some dust .... enjoy






 
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