My Kurrasier and JzP M15's

911car

Well-known member
SkipperJohn said:
I don't believe that we have an argument here, just a discussion. That is what the forum is about, picking each others brains for what we know --- and what we don't.
John :)

Of course not, John!! I never thought we were having an argument! Just a healthy discussion, and I am happy
to learn from you things I ignore. Hopefully, we shall also receive more feedback from other members.
Bruno
 

coert65

Active member
I also think we are having a great discussion, no arguments because we are all grown men learning from eachother John.

This is exactly why I like being on this forum for! Nobody knows everything off-course. :)

Have a nice day everybody,Coert :thumb up:
 

JohnM

Member
Gentlemen,

If I may opine, what I think we have here is a matter of tastes and a lacking of solid information. I agree with Bruno in that any KR/JzP helmet marked before 1915 and not having painted steel grey fittings or wappen must have large cockades to be authentic. That being said I do not agree with this statement, Bruno, "Even if you are correct and small cockades were worn occasionally on cavalry helmets, this was an exception and not the rule. For the collector, in my opinion, these helmets must come with the large cockades...". Disclaimer!!! This is only my opinion and totally a wild ass guess but I have observed 2 things with these helmets.

1)Those with unpainted steel grey fittings dated 1915 or earlier have come with the large cockades ( there are exceptions) meaning they where untouched from the day they where issued.
2) Helmets with grey painted fittings and wappen seem to have the smaller infantry cockades on the majority of the ones I have seen.

So, again in my opinion, at some point in 1915 the unpainted KR and JzP helmets had to go back to the barracks to be painted over as per regulations. I suspect that you turned in your helmet and where issued a painted one or perhaps since not all KR and JzP went back to horseback duties you where issued a standard stahlhelm. If the helmets fittings where painted over I suspect the helmet was disassembled by removing the spike, wappen, cockades and chinstrap. The parts along with all the infantry helmets that where getting the same treatment where thrown together and those that could be re-used such as cockades and chinstraps where just added back on at the end of the process, with cockade sizes being ignored to expedite the process.

This theory might explain one thing, that being why we find perfect pre-1915 examples with the large cockades. They where turned in to the company stores and never made it to the refurbish line. They where then captured as is. We have to stop and ask ourselves why we find these unpainted helmets which if Regulations where strictly enforced should not really exist.

John
 

aicusv

Active member
In one of my veteran interviews, I was told about the stahlhelms availability. The stahlnelms were held in a depot behind the front lines. Troops entering the trenches would draw helmets from these depots. Upon leaving the trenches the helmets would be returned to the depot. The pickelhaub would be worn behind the lines. An interesting part of this was that there was a shortage of chin straps. The soldiers were required to use the chin strap from their pickelhaube. Leaving the soldier to find some way of securing his cockades. This condition lasted until enough stahlhelm could reach the troops (unfortunately they never said when that was).
 

aicusv

Active member
In one of my veteran interviews, I was told about the stahlhelms availability. The stahlnelms were held in a depot behind the front lines. Troops entering the trenches would draw helmets from these depots. Upon leaving the trenches the helmets would be returned to the depot. The pickelhaub would be worn behind the lines. An interesting part of this was that there was a shortage of chin straps. The soldiers were required to use the chin strap from their pickelhaube. Leaving the soldier to find some way of securing his cockades. This condition lasted until enough stahlhelm could reach the troops (unfortunately they never said when that was).
 
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