Not a pickelhaube but what an ebay find!

M

minihelmets

New member
Here's a good one. read the title and description,, anybody tell what it is?

Antique leather helmet Japanese WWII? Motorist 20s? Item number: 250412405202
Interesting leather helmet, could it be a japanese officers helmet from the second WW or is it a lady motorist cap from the roaring twenties?



http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6450/revolutionhelmet001.jpg
 
It is absolutely not a Japanese helmet or hat or anything else military. I don't know what it is, but it isn't Japanese military.
 
It certainly is not Japanese I agree,, but it certainly is military and 100% original

Can somebody help me to post pictures!???
 
well I dont know if the pictures will come up but here goes again

gal.php
 
well I followed the steps but no picture has appeared. I think the instructions may be out of date with the picture hosting site
 
Oh well ., I was looking forward to hearing what some of you would have said about the hat but that's not to be.

I cant waste time on constantly trying to post pics with no success so I'll probably just be a reader and looker at the site. That is unless there is a simpler way to successfully post pictures.
So I guess I'll be of little use to the forum. Its too bad cos I coulda sent in some interesting pics from time to time to create a little interest here and there.

Anyway I tried.
 
Hi, that URL to the imageshack page is correct but you either need to insert it as an URL-link like the following:

http://img411.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=revhelmet001.jpg

Or you can link directly to the pictures in imageshack. For example, in the Opera browser I can right-click an image and copy its URL. Then insert this using the image function like below. You can only insert the URL of an image using the button, not the URL to an internet page (a PHP page in this case).

[img]http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7765/revhelmet002.jpg
 
minihelmets said:
It certainly is not Japanese I agree,, but it certainly is military and 100% original
Click to expand...

I don't mean to be rude, but I would like to ask why you think this is military? It is absolutely not like anything I've encountered, and as far as international headgear goes I have a very good general knowledge. I never claim to be an expert of anything, but that said I've seen a lot of hats, helmets, etc.

This doesn't appear to be military from any nation from the 19th or 20th centuries.

So could you please fill in why you believe it is "miltiary and 100% original." Again, not meaning to be rude, but your statement implies that you know what it is... so if it is military let us know. :D
 
I dont think your being rude, However I think you are being (at the risk of sounding rude) a little dismissive because it's not in your field of interest.
I cant blame you really because the chances of seeing anything similar is very slim... in this case it's probably the only chance.

I think it would be unfair at this n moment to say anything about the hat because I was expecting a few more folks to have a go at IDing it.. so please forgive me at this time for not saying anything and lets see if sombody comes up with the right answer. I'll try and post some more pics after this to help with this little competition.. I hope some of you will participate. It'll test your researching capabilities ... well I can help by saying it's not pickelhaube research you need
 
Naw tried again cant understand a word about urls img etc.,.. not very computer litterate Would have to have the whole thing properly explained, you will have to make do with one picture.

I'll have to repeat It looks like I'm not gonna be much good for this site
 
minihelmets said:
I dont think your being rude, However I think you are being (at the risk of sounding rude) a little dismissive because it's not in your field of interest.
Click to expand...

Yes, I will take your tone as being rude. In part because you do NOT know me. My collection is very broad; in fact I might have one of the greatest range of helmets of any of the members here. This isn't me bragging, so don't take it that way.

But I have a range of helmets, and while my current focus is (and has been for the past decade) on sun helmets, I've collected helmets for about 30 years. I have sun helmets, dress helmets from Europe and South America, steel helmets from both World Wars, modern ballistic helmets and many others.

For the record I have seen many interesting helmets from the 18th century, including many early sun helmets. While this somewhat resembles those, I must question what you believe it to be.

But I NEVER play guessing games on the origin of helmets. I don't think these guessing games really help anyone learn about things. I think it tends to have the opposite effect.

Finally, I would ask why you are posting this in the "Latest Find" section. This is where members show off their helmets, and is not where one gets into debates on helmets.
 
Well It seems you are a touchy soul!.
I had no intention of being rude. But if you choose to take it that way so be it. I shall possibly have to hone my writing skills.
Regarding sun helmets, I'm afraid I dont have much interest but I really would like to see a sun helmet from the 18th century.
Again at the risk of sounding rude, which I am not I assure you. If your knowlege of helmets is as vast and wide ranging as you say it is then the helmet which I have shown would surely have rang a bell. No?

You don't know me either but like you I have many helmets but nothing later than 1907. I too have had a long long experience with them somewhat longer than 30 years I'm afraid,(I wish it wasn't) But in any case that is of no consequence other than that through this experience I was able to spot the helmet I have shown by recognising the leopard pattern for the helmet was rather out of shape when I saw the pics

Since then I have had other more experienced men than I examine it and they are equally confident that it is 100% original, So much so that it seems that it is probably the only surviving mans helmet in existence. Officers examples do exist and are well documented.

As to playing guessing games I was only trying to generate a little bit of interest away from the p'haube norm,No offense intended here either for i too have quite a few imp German helmets) after all there are surely folks on the forum who are interested in other helmets too.. Take yourself for an example. IT was just little harmless bit of fun something to see if there was anyone out there who could recognise it for what it is,., or have seen something very similar.
If i have somehow offended you I can only apologise. However I can't apologise for asking folks to have a guess as to what it is. There is no harm in that surely.

"But I NEVER play guessing games on the origin of helmets. I don't think these guessing games really help anyone learn about things. I think it tends to have the opposite effect.
Finally, I would ask why you are posting this in the "Latest Find" section. This is where members show off their helmets, and is not where one gets into debates on helmets. "

In reply to your statements above, There seemed to be no ruling over what one can say in the 'Latest find' section about ones latest find. Anyway as it is, I' was not posting the pictures and the question to show off the helmet. I only thought it would be a little change from the norm.

I'm actually beginning to s feel that I should not have done this. and in future I will think very carfully before I send in pictures from now on if indeed I ever do now.
I am not one for showing off helmets, and quite frankly I do find it rather embarrassing, for I feel that most folks think there is always an element of 'Look what I've got.,.bet you wish you had it' boast about that kind of thing. For that reason I am always reluctant to show other collectors the peices that I have kept.

So in saying that I shall end this thread and forget it ever happened but to put things right before I do so, I shall tell you exactly what this helmet is. and apologise to anyone who may have been doing a little research on it for their own pleasure

It is not a sun helmet, But it is late 18th Century 1790-3. It is a mans fusilier helmet from the french Revolution.

The helmet is not leather as was stated in the sale, It is felt, laquered black. The turban is Painted linen. The leopard skin pattern is typical French. The turban is folded up and tied at the front. This could be untied and pulled down to cover the neck and cheeks and tied under the chin(much too old to attempt)
There would have been a fur crest or a pudding shaped comb running from fore and aft over the top. Sadly this is missing but the holes and brass wire which once held this are still there.
There is a leather loop on the side which would have held the tricolor

All in all not anything like as pretty as later helmets but it shows early workmanship and if you can imagine it with a comb, there you have the forerunner of the Tarleton helmet of the British light dragoons which was worn a few years later.
So there we are, it should be in the Musee d'armee Paris soon rather than here in my hands making me make people annoyed.



 
Dear minihelmets:

As the forum pariah, I readily confess I found your introduction to this helmet fascinating. I further appreciate you sharing your knowledge of its provenance. Might one find an illustration of this helmet in one of the Osprey publications?

Thanks,

Charles
 
Hello. What an interesting find! Care to cite your research sources? I am no expert by any stretch and I am familiar with the French helms of later years and yes, yours would be a very early example indeed. However, I am unaware of reference material that would help to substantiate your claim, perhaps the French museum of which you speak? The period in reference was certainly tumultuous and would have necessarily lent itself to a hodge-podge of uniforms and material as evidenced by the depictions of the art of the period. I do not believe that "The Committee of Public Safety" had established a uniform military code at that point and quite simply did not concern itself with the dress of the citizen militia as it constituted the military forces of the fledgling republic. Again, I am no authority on anything except what is in my own small collection and I do not doubt your belief but I would like to see some reference material.
Congrats on your find, it certainly is a curiosity! I do see the similarity between it and the English Dragoons helm, but personally I would like a little more supporting evidence on your claim. :cool:
 
I placed this on the forum so folks could do their own research. but It kinda backfired. I may have upset the moderator.
Anyway I contacted the museums and experts in the field and from them I was able to assure myself that I was correct in my assumptions.

revhelmets008.jpg
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I have posted a picture of the hat with another hat of a slightly later date to give an idea of size and I shall try and post a few pics of officer examples If I can find them.. after which I shall close the thread and allow the forum to settle down to pickelhauben again and apologise for this disturbance
 
Another showing a comb and metal side strengtheners and with leopard fur turban
IN answer to an earlier enquiry., Yes I beleive there are reference to this kind of headgear in the osprey books
Anyway that's the link broken for me. I feel like this is becoming personal,,, as if i have done something wrong and that I had better prove that I am right . so this is as far as I'm taking it because surely this is leading towards argument and not discussion

 
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