Old Brunswick

9

911car

Well-known member
A pair of older IR92 helmets, illustrating the two different emblems worn.
- 1871-1890 type officer helmet. This emblem was given in 1886, the year when the regiment started wearing spike helmets. On this example the enamel is unfortunately damaged (for the rest, the helmet is pretty much flawless. A single (prussian) cockade is worn on the right side, as is normal on this model)
- M91 enlisted man helmet. The skull was adopted in 1889 by the 3rd battalion

Still in time to wish you all a happy 2012!
Bruno

L1020434.jpg
 
Bruno,

1st congratulations on such nice helmets!

Here is another little piece of trivia. I picked this up while I was looking for information on the different types of officers skulls that had been discussed. There was a book that was produced in 1987 by Elm Verlag entitled Braunschweigisches Militär by Georg Ortenburg. While my question was not answered and he seems to have ignored Landwehr there is an interesting tidbit on page 86. Most of this book is in black and white. It shows a sketch of a running horse officer’s helmet and states plainly that between the years 1886 and 1897 they wore 2 cockades-a Landeskokarde on the left and a Prussian one on the right. In 1897 this changed to a Reichskokarde on the right and one from Braunschweig on the left but now according to the Prussian Probe. It goes on to show that 2 different Landeskokarde. Unfortunately while they are obviously different they are in black and white not color. The text seems to indicate that the 1st one is called blaugelbe and a later one from 1897 is called hellblau with a yellow ring. Perhaps this is a clue as to why there are such great shade differences in the Braunschweig kockades we are used to. I have looked in vain for a color comparison but perhaps this is like Saxe Weimar Eisenach where the colors changed order??? If you look back on their uniforms historically the Braunschweig soldiers seem to use a blue that is more like the Bavarian color. So maybe an older preference is the lighter blue and the newer preference is the darker blue???

On another note we know there are a great deal of differences in the quality of the “enamel” for these helmets based on this article http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Runninghorse.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One more observation–is your officer helmet not for the Landwehr? There is no “peninsula”. From what I understood this style helmet was used throughout the war by the Besirkscommando.
 
Thank you for these interesting informations Joe. You are right, from the beginning a state cockade was worn on the left side, in addition to the prussian one on the right. But, according to Larcade, this only applied to natives of Braunschweig. Reserve officers often came from other states. In this very case, the original transport box bears the label of a Militar-Effekten-Fabrik in Breslau (nowadays Wroclaw, in Poland). This would explain the single prussian cockade. Regarding the emblem I of course re-read your interesting link. This one would quaify for all-enamel. Except for the green feathers which seem to be painted. The vents in the visor of the small chivalry helmet, below the horse, are indeed in red color.
 
Joe, Bruno,

1871-1890 type officer helmet
Click to expand...

I think you will find that the Braunschweig Infantry were wearing a shako prior to the militray convention of 9/18 March 1886.

according to Das Deutsche Reichsheer by Krickel and Lange, all officers wore just the Prussian Cockade at this time. There is an illustration in the same work on page 61 which shows the plate worn by Landwehr-Bezirke I and II Braunschweig and it compares very favourably with the plate on Bruno's helmet. The colour of the blue is described as cornflower blue.

Regards
Glenn
 
There is a nice photograph on page 83 of the same 1987 text that shows the last use of the black uniforms and shakos at a ceremony. But something else I did not know is that the artillery soldiers of 1866-1886 wore a Raupenhelm! Got to get a picture of that!

according to Das Deutsche Reichsheer by Krickel and Lange, all officers wore just the Prussian Cockade at this time. There is an illustration in the same work on page 61 which shows the plate worn by Landwehr-Bezirke I and II Braunschweig and it compares very favourably with the plate on Bruno's helmet. The colour of the blue is described as cornflower blue.
Click to expand...

I agree–this is the 1st I have heard of this new cockade and actually Bruno's idea makes some sense but I'm not sure why they would do that?
 
Joe,

But something else I did not know is that the artillery soldiers of 1866-1886 wore a Raupenhelm!
Click to expand...

The Braunschweig artillery ceased wearing the Raupenhelm in 1866 when it was replaced by the Käppi. The Braunschweiger Battery within Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 10 wore from 1872 to 1886 the same type of Jäger shako as Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 92 albeit with a plate consisting of a pair of crossed cannons surmounted by the Braunschweig star and W Cypher. Below is an image of the 1839 pattern Braunschweig Artillery Officers' Raupenhelm from Jan Kube's "Militaria" and an image from the regimental history of Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 10 showing an Officert and the Wachtmeister of 5. Batterie.

Regards
Glenn

braunschweig2.jpg


braunschweig.jpg
 
Glennj said:
Joe, Bruno,

1871-1890 type officer helmet
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I think you will find that the Braunschweig Infantry were wearing a shako prior to the militray convention of 9/18 March 1886.

according to Das Deutsche Reichsheer by Krickel and Lange, all officers wore just the Prussian Cockade at this time. There is an illustration in the same work on page 61 which shows the plate worn by Landwehr-Bezirke I and II Braunschweig and it compares very favourably with the plate on Bruno's helmet. The colour of the blue is described as cornflower blue.

Hi Glenn,
Thanks much for your comments. Yes a shako was worn before 1886. I had mentioned in my post that 1886 was the first year when the spike helmet was adopted. I was referring to 1871-1890 as the general classification of officer helmets. If you had a chance to post a scan of this page from "Das Deutsche Reichsheer"...
Cheers, Bruno
 
Glennj said:
// according to Das Deutsche Reichsheer by Krickel and Lange, all officers wore just the Prussian Cockade at this time. //
Click to expand...

To add to that; The Preußen Kokarde was worn until 1897, a full year after the military convention (I have the date of 01 April 1886) when The Braunschweigisches Infanterie-Regt. Nr.92 became Braunschweigisches Infanterie-Regt. Nr.92 and retired (sort of; it took 10 years for the transition to be complete to 1896) the black Polrock and Preußen M1860 Jáger Tschako they had adopted on 28 Nov 1872. The Regiment did not receive the Braunschweig Kokarde until 1897.
 
Hi Tony,

As I understand it, non Prussian citizens (and that would include citizens of Braunschweig) would wear in addition to the Prussian cockade, their state cockade? Here is an excerpt from the convention; the vorgenannten Truppentheile are IR 92, HR 17 and 5./FAR 10. According to regimental history, the regiment received its new pattern cockades on 9 April 1897.

Regards
Glenn

braunschweig5.jpg
 
Tony without Kaiser said:
Holy crap..... Bruno is it a true M91 without the rear vent and screw posts on the eagle? Unit marked? More photos please?
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Yes Tony, a genuine M91: no air vent on the spine, slightly higher shell, thick leather liner, screwposts behind the plate, M91 cockade, sideposts with domed center, rear spine affixed to the visor with a nail. And unit marked. I will make more pictures.
 
A detailed discussion of Brunswick headdress can also be found on pages 468 through 483 of The German Infantry from 1871 to 1914, Uniforms and Equipment, Volume 2, by Ulrich Herr and Jens Nguyen.

Reservist1
 
This picture sent me digging.


ps1816b by joerookery, on Flickr

Braunschweigisches Husaren-Regiment Nr.17- one of three Landwehr Squadrons Braunschweig X Corps

I had a very hard time in determining that these guys existed. I do not know what they did separate from the active Regiment. There were 6 active squadrons and 3 Landwehr. Seems a really strange combination.But wait there is more! There actually was a Landsturm squadron! Was this the only regiment that had this kind of organization? What did they do during the war that was separate from the active Regiment?

Questions questions! Help me Mr. Wizard!
 
Nice picture!

There were 110 active Cavalry Regiments, 33 reserve cavalry regiments, two Landwehr cavalry regiments, one mobile ersatz cavalry Regiment in 38 self standing Landwehr cavalry squadrons.
What did they do during the war that was separate from the active Regiment? If this is the aggregate where is the detail located??
 
Joe, Bruno,

Nice and rare pictures indeed! RHR17 shots are seldom seen
Click to expand...

not RHR 17 as no such unit existed. As Joe alludes to; HR 17 formed three Landwehr Cavalry Squadrons at mobilization:

1. Landwehr-Eskadron des X. Armeekorps
2. Landwehr-Eskadron des X. Armeekorps
3. Landwehr-Eskadron des X. Armeekorps

H.R. v. Stein in Sonderheft 17 of Feldgrau - Reserve-Kavallerie-Regimenter, Reserve-Kavallerie-Abteilungen und weitere Kriegsformationen 1914-1918 gives a nice overview of the wartime formations of the German cavalry as does Jürgen Kraus in the 2nd volume of his work Die feldgraue Uniformierung des deutschen Heeres 1907-1918. The Landwehr squadrons operated totally independently from the regiments that formed them at mobilization and predominantly on lines of communications (Etappen) security duties.

Regards
Glenn
 
Glenn,

Thank you for the information. As usual, my thoughts are about as clear as mud. My conundrum was/is why this individual has a cover that is specifically identified to HR 17. While the 3 squadrons were formed on mobilization by HR 17 they did not bear that name I do not think. So I chased my tail around about this for quite some time. :-({|= :-({|=
 
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