Photographer props???

Good train of thought Dave, the general concept I have doubted, is that these are photographer studio props. What if, as you said, they did not belong to the soldier in question, but has it been considered that these items were relatively easy to "borrow" from other more well-off soldiers in the Regt for the sake of a quick photo?
 
Just a small note alot of these style pics of general infantry show prop's like outdated rifles and swords or picklehaubes (post 1916) .I mean the farmer;s son or the stell worker serving in a line unit. Alot seem to have added kit to make the Photo seem more impresive.
Just some thought's
Mark
 
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deadhorse.gif

I think that the photographic prop idea is quite dead here guys.
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never! Into the breach once more!

No conclusions offered here however, I did come up with a number of pictures from Berlin out of the same photographer. My thought was that if I could find some flaw or point in the helmet that was common I could determine a prop. Interestingly number eight is a musician. Photos included here to tantalize everyone.
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Hey Mike and Joe,
I spent 30 minutes looking at the photos, and could not say for sure that they are the same helmet, but one thing is for sure, if they are different helmets, they are perfectly matched.
Gus
 
Liongules said:
I'd have to say, Joe, that sure looks like exactly the same helmet in all the photos! :?
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Oy. And they should. One of my favorite sayings, is that if you stare at a bowl of Corn Flakes long enough, eventually you will see Jesus. Lets put this in perspective: in an Infantry regiment, there were 3200 Mannschaften, all wearing exactly the same helmet. In this case, what could be M1867, but probably M1871, probably all made by the same manufacturer under contract, with all the eagles pressed out of the same die, with all the chinscales made by the same line of workers, with all parade plumes made to the exact same specs to the mm. In my opinion, they all look the same, because they all look the same.

I think it is important to understand as well, that soldiers did not usually go to the photographer's studio. The studio came to the customer. Photographers would set up a tent or use space in the Kaserne, advertise to the soldiers that they would be there, take the photos, and come back some time after with the photos to collect payment.

This is not new, in the Lord Strathcona's Horse in Calgary when I was with the Regt, this happened occasionally after a parade, and it happened a few times at mess dinners. The photographers were there, we posed, we received the photos later.

Perhaps it is a prop, who knows. But I still believe that in most cases( I am sure there are exceptions) these are photos taken in the Kaserne where the soldier walked in with his stuff.

Now, on the other hand, (yes I am now arguing against myself. Anyone who knows me well should not be surprised) logically, if a photographer set up shop at a Kaserne, which would naturally be authorized by the HQ, I have no doubt that a cooperative HQ would meet the photographer's request to get a few helmets and swords etc from the QM for the day's shooting. So if this was the case, well, perhaps they are props, just not the photographer's!
 
Tony & Kaiser said:
Liongules said:
I'd have to say, Joe, that sure looks like exactly the same helmet in all the photos! :?
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In my opinion, they all look the same, because they all look the same.

I have no doubt that a cooperative HQ would meet the photographer's request to get a few helmets and swords etc from the QM for the day's shooting. So if this was the case, well, perhaps they are props, just not the photographer's!
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Tony,

You've already said what I was thinking. I realize that all the regiment's helmets are going to look the pretty much the same, but there's going to be some type of individual differences in the helmets. One has the chin strap laying just this way, another that way. Plumes slightly crushed, etc. But in these particular photos these look like the same helmet in each photo, at least to me anyway. I think it's what you said, the photographer has "borrowed" one helmet that he has set up in his photo tent and everyone is coming in (probably wearing their best Schirmmütze) and get their photo taken with the "helmet of the day." We'll never know for sure, but it seems like a good guess.
 
Tony & Kaiser said:
Now, on the other hand, (yes I am now arguing against myself. Anyone who knows me well should not be surprised) logically, if a photographer set up shop at a Kaserne, which would naturally be authorized by the HQ, I have no doubt that a cooperative HQ would meet the photographer's request to get a few helmets and swords etc from the QM for the day's shooting. So if this was the case, well, perhaps they are props, just not the photographer's!
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This is the case that I have suspected, I would think that it would be easier for everyone if the photographer was able to "borrow" a helmet and have it setting on the table so the soldier could just walk in and get the photo taken. Having done a bit of photo work for the public, there is nothing more time consuming than waiting for someone to get ready for the shot. The photo of the fellow holding the helmet looks like he is the owner to me.
Gus
 
Why are none of the same looking helmet's on their owner's head's , at least one ? I guess the furniture is standard issue to the unit mess?
:D
Zippey
 
Joe;
Are white gloves issued to enlisted personnel?
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Dave,

I finally found this. I cannot vouch for the color of the gloves but the issue of the gloves was supposedly standard. There was a difference by rank. Unteroffiziere and above were issued with leather gloves. Most of the mere mortals had cloth gloves -- there was a third kind for some artillery but it does not seem to translate well-Fingerhandschuhe. The wear out length for the cloth gloves was five years! Seems to me that there would be some ratty gloves out there.
 
Five years wear ot time for cloth gloves? You have to be kidding, they must have only worn them on the Kaiser's birthday. A heavey pair of leather gloves are lucky to last me a month during the slack season (and that does not count the pairs I lose)
Gus
 
Hi Joe:

If I may, I think Dave's question about white gloves was an analogous one. In other words, are white gloves issued to U.S. enlisted personnel?

Even if that's not what Mosher meant, I would like to know. Thanks.

Chas.
 
I have been out of the Army for quite A few years however, in my day the only guys who had white gloves was the third infantry Regiment who did the ceremonial duty in Washington, DC, and several color guards and bands.

Everyone had leather gloves. There were cotton inserts with leather covers. Additional thick gloves were authorized for those that handled barbed wire. There were also mittens for use in cold weather.

Officers had these thin leather gloves in addition to the regular leather gloves -- but all branch photographs were taken without gloves. Hope this helps.
 
joerookery said:
I have been out of the Army for quite A few years however, in my day the only guys who had white gloves was the third infantry Regiment who did the ceremonial duty in Washington, DC, and several color guards and bands.
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Joe,

A bit late, and this is probably ancient history, but I was an enlisted military policeman in the Army in 1977 (the old white hat MP days) and we were issued white gloves too. We wore them when we worked the main gate (to look good saluting all those blue stickered vehicles!) and we also did the post flag detail every afternoon and wore the gloves when we took the flag down.
 
joerookery said:
Flogging the horse about photographers props again -- this one from Dresden and it is the same helmet.
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No horse is too dead for Joe Robinson! I agree Joe, same helmet. What I disagree with, is that it belonged to the photographer. A group of guys walking to the studio, and they only bring one helmet so they can all pose beside it, is much more plausible to me, than a photographer buying a helmet for every rank, in every size, for every unit in his city.
 
What memories Mike! I was commissioned in 1977, had a blue sticker, and a 1970 Chevy Novo with a black vinyl top. Boy did I think I was cool!

A group of guys walking to the studio, and they only bring one helmet so they can all pose beside it, is much more plausible to me, than a photographer buying a helmet for every rank, in every size, for every unit in his city.
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Tony you are probably right -- and this photo proves nothing -- for some unknown reason this bugs me. I am not sure why but it does bug me.
 
joerookery said:
What memories Mike! I was commissioned in 1977, had a blue sticker, and a 1970 Chevy Novo with a black vinyl top. Boy did I think I was cool!
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Joe,

A lot of the MP's hated pulling gate duty, but for some reason I loved it! I've always loved pomp, ceremony, parades, and I guess I just enjoyed being able to stand out there, dressed sharp as a tack, and render all those salutes and help lost people who would stop and ask for directions. There was always two of us on the gate, but usually whoever I was partnered with didn't mind letting me stand outside and do all the traffic monitoring while they sat inside and monitored the phone or helped the lost ones that had to be shown a map for directions.

I had some fun times back then!
 
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