Pickelhaube Questions

[rocky]

Hi,

I would like to ask a few questions concerning a Pickelhaube that I am going to look at. It is a Prussian Enlisted Man's Pickelhaube. Is there any way to tell if the Cockades and chinstrap are original? Is there any other details that I should look at before I purchase it? The guy is asking $700 for it. I am going to see if I can negotiate a little but. I know it is hard without photos but I just want something to go by and if I buy it I will post pics. From what I read on this forum they say that cockades and chin straps are faked a lot. Any information will be helpful.

Thanks,
rocky

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Welcome Rocky,
Yes, the "quick-attach" system with a side post means that the cockades and chinstrap of model 91, 95 and 15 helmets have often been lost. As a result, there are many copies on the market to complete a helmet. In France, a copy of a cockade is worth 10€ and an authentic one is worth 80€, a copy of a chinstrap is worth 20€ and an authentic one is 180-200€.
And some people age and patina one or the other and resell them at a profit.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

The copies of cockades, like chinstraps, are formidable. You absolutely need good photos to be able to decide. This is very important, because a Prussian helmet for enlisted, complete and authentic is worth 700€, but with copies of cockades and chinstrap, maximum 400€!!!

 

[b.loree]

Welcome Rocky. First, you don’t tell us whether this is a helmet with brass fittings a model 1895 or the more common model 1915 with grey steel fittings. Even so, some things to look for: condition is everything, is the liner complete, is the stitching on the visors tight, are there patches of missing finish? Is the helmet misshapen, are there any dates or regimental markings in the helmet? Missing kokarden, chin straps and liners are common with these helmets. If the helmet you are going to look at has any of these problems, then the price should be less. Ink stamped regimental markings are a bonus as you may be able to identify the regiment which issued the helmet.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Yes, I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, I can't give an expert opinion without photos, especially detailed photos of critical points. For the sake of credibility.

 

[rocky]

Thank you for your replies. Here are some pics that I got today. Both cockades are the same color and I must have not taken the other side of the cockade but I will get it tomorrow & post it.

Thanks,
rocky

 

[Amybellars]

Are there any extra holes behind the wappen as it is not sitting nicely on the helmet

 

[rocky]

Thanks for the reply. There is a hole that you can see on the pic in img 0020 where it looks like there was something that was screwed in there at one time but this one looks like it is just hooked to the rim. Could it be transitional where they did away with that? It has two of the same cockades but I have to get a pic of the other side of the helmet. I don't know too much about these but should the other cockade on the other side be black & white? Does the cockade & the chin strap look original? He is asking $650.

Thanks,
rocky

 

[Amybellars]

The rear visor is not military so if I am not wrong, if the eagle front plate is removed, there are extra holes behind it. Ask for pics of the eagle being removed.

Cockade(Reich) looks original for nco, liner is original early pattern for nco, chinstrap looks original.

I personally don't like it.

Regards
Amy Bellars

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm II]

Personally, I would stray away, for me, modifications like the glaring issue of the rear visor would be too much to pay that much money for. I would say that the helmet is worth no more than its hardware. As a fellow beginner, I know the struggle of trying not to get burnt, I'd avoid this like the plague.

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Amy nailed it, a put together helmet with a fireman's or Police rear visor etc.

I would stay away.

James

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Yes, police helmet (with metal headband and 2 side rivets). Likewise, the black guilloche basane liner, with crenellations and a double hole for the adjustment cord, is typical of privately-purchased helmets. The Reichskokarde is of the Portepee sub-officer type, and the chinstrap is 0K.
As mentioned, I'd like to see a photo of the front of the shell, without the eagle.
This could be a contemporary hack, but also a mobilization hack. Many police and firefighter helmets were "militarized" in a hurry, at the start of the war. But either hypothesis needs to be seriously tested. The metal trim and the eagle appear to have been installed a long time ago.

 

[rocky]

Thank You for the help. I am posting some pics without the Eagle on the helmet. So if the rear visor is Police, so what did the helmet start out as?

Thanks again,
rocky

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Thanks for the photos. The two vertical holes confirm that this is a police helmet. The old front badge is still visible. The two holes for the military eagle don't conform, they're badly made and too big.
The roundels don't match. They are 2 Reichskokardes, the one with a single row of stripes is for a Portepee non-commissioned officer, and the other, with two rows of stripes, is for an officer.

 

[rocky]

Thanks for the help. You guys definitely know what you are talking about. Did you also notice that one of the attachment pins for the Eagle was resoldered? Excuse me for not understanding a few things.
1. The rear visor was changed to a Police visor?
2. If it was a Police helmet originally, why was the rear visor changed?
3. What does a Policeman front plate insignia look like?
4. If I find an insignia for the front, would it complete the helmet?
These questions might sound silly but I am new to Pickelhaube Helmets.
Thanks,
rocky

 

[Amybellars]

Hi Rocky , don't worry about asking.

This haube is originally a police or non military. The rear visor is originally non military and someone literally just punch two big holes to hold the eagle which is military. I really feel sad for the two big holes which are punched out so ugly.i can drill better looking holes than that.

In my opinion is not worth completing this helmet as the asking price of 650 is too high for the part helmet.

Regards
Amy Bellars

 

[rocky]

Thanks for all the help. Just out of curiosity I was trying to find a para military/police pickelhaube but was unable to find one online. Do you know where I can view one?

Thanks again,
Rocky

 

[HatEnjoyer]

Here’s a random police pickelhaube I found off the internet: https://www.ima-usa.com/products/or...rom-the-city-of-zittau?variant=31127685791813

 

[b.loree]

You dodged a bullet here Rock. You saved yourself $650. It pays to post photos and ask questions here on the forum.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

par curiosité, j'essayais de trouver un pickelhaube para-militaire/policier, mais je n'ai pas réussi à en trouver un en ligne. Savez-vous où je peux en voir un ?Rocheux

Hello Rocky,
This will answer your question:

Police helmets and headgear.

Here's my latest acquisition for the start of the year. A helmet from the Royal Bavarian Police. This post should please Schupo ;) In general, police helmets, whether imperial, royal, ducal or communal, had silver (nickel silver) trimmings. Gendarmerie helmets have gold (brass) fittings...

www.pickelhaubes.com