Pickelhauben at the Wehrgeschichtliches Museum, Rastatt



I want more also!! There was a guy at SOS this year who showed me a picture of a scroll helmet. He was referred to me by some of the guys up front and while he did not have the helmet he had a picture somewhat blurry and he promised to send me more. It was really different. While this example from the museum is a type II this guy's picture was of a type I helmet. He actually had the artifact. There was a leather front visor -- it had a type I scroll with four digits! Yes four digits but the picture was too blurry to read them. There was something below the scroll but again I could not see what it was. On the back of the helmet in very large letters was stamped 119 in black ink. It appeared as though the helmet was cloth covered sort of -- again really rotten pictures and if he sends me more I will share them.
 
Thanks for the ideas about the Baden heavy cavalry helmet. Any more thoughts about that would be interesting. Has anyone ever seen one of those in a period photo?

More of the scroll helmet? OK. The real problem here was flash photography isn't allowed and it was in a glass case that seemed designed to throw reflections in every direction. Here's some of my attempts to get it, including one illegible one of the issue stamp inside. Again without a flash I couldn't get it at all. I do remember it said 1916 though.

helmflitzhelm1.jpg


helmflitzhelm2.jpg


helmflitzhelm3.jpg


helmflitzhelm4.jpg


helmflitzhelm5.jpg


For anyone who doesn't understand the interest in this particular helmet, read Joe's excellent article here-
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Scroll_helmets.html

Cheers
Chris
 
They've also got a few shoulder straps at the Museum...

shoulderstrapsdisplay.jpg


Brunswick Inf Regt 92

shoulderstrapIR92.jpg


Mecklenburg Jaeger Btn 14

shoulderstrapJB14.jpg


Hessian Dragoon Regt 24

shoulderstrapsdrag24.jpg


So a couple of people mentioned wanting to visit the museum. Does anyone fancy a trip out there together sometime? You know what I'd like to do... a trip for a few days and go and see the Ingolstadt and Dresden museums at the same time. Does anyone like the idea of that?

Cheers
Chris
 
JR92 said:
...what's going on here? I didn't think Baden had heavy cavalry? Am I missing something obvious?
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May be a "Meldereiter" ?
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Actually, I believe that is Sabsordannanzen. After 1900 they wore the Jäger zu Pferde pattern Metalhelme (with Württemberg or Baden Wappen etc which looks very odd) , and the M15 version after that model was introduced. Basically, they were HQ guards.
 
Thanks for solving that one, Tony. This helmet was in blackened steel so sounds about right.

Here's another odd one I saw there. Ever seen this kind of cockade arrangement before?

badencap2cockadehatband.jpg


Cheers
Chris
 
joerookery said:
I hope that is not a chocolate brown leather rim...
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?????
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I was referring to that brown leather rim around the edge that is sometimes found on fake felt helmets..

Thanks for posting the extra pictures! I never saw this plate type yet.
 
Robert,

That does look like a leather trim. That would be different. This helmet type is in Kraus.

The helmet that Kraus shows with the type 2 -- 135 Bekleidungsamt Mark XVI rather then being of unknown origin, sure looks like it would be from 3. Lothringisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.135 of the XVI Corps. Infantry Regiment 135 spent the entire war with the 33rd Infantry Division. The division never left France and from September 1914 to August of 1916 it was in the Argonne. xi There is no Nackenshutz on the Kraus helmet.
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The western front scroll helmet is gathering more momentum. I have seen a picture now that is clearly marked 33. I do not have a copy.
 
Does the helmet pictures by Krause have a similar plate? The type 2 from the article looks ornate in comparison to the plate above, which looks more like a makeshift item.
That does look like a leather trim. That would be different.
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Did you ever see a leather trim around the edge of a good looking felt helmet? I know the cloth-covered helmets with replacement (oilskin) trim, which makes sense because it covers the exposed edge of the cloth top. I would be eager to see a a true leather trim on a normal felt helmet.
 
Robert,

This is the helmet that is in the book by Krauss. Both this one and one on the facing page for a pioneer company are felt and have that leather trim that we have all come to distrust. So the leather trim was not only on cloth covered helmets.?!?!
 
joerookery said:
This is the helmet that is in the book by Krauss. Both this one and one on the facing page for a pioneer company are felt and have that leather trim that we have all come to distrust. So the leather trim was not only on cloth covered helmets.?!?!
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Joe, I do not think it is leather. The fake Ersatz all use leather. I agree with Robert that this looks like the green/grey Ersatz oilskin trim.
 
chrispaulodale said:
Here's another odd one I saw there. Ever seen this kind of cockade arrangement before?
badencap2cockadehatband.jpg
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Until 1897, if an oficer was serving in a unit that he was not from, (in this case, a Preußen officer serving in a Baden regiment) they were allowed to wear their "home" state Kokarde (Preußen) bove the unit state Kokarde (Baden).
 
Hi Chris

Many thanks for the extra uniform photos, man what a pile. I'm very glad for you that you checked the other brochure, as you said, that would have been a real shame driving to a closed museum. Marshall and I were in Rastatt to visit a militaria dealer we had met during our trip and stumbled across the museum quite by accident. One of my most striking memories of the visit to the dealers shop was the piece of wire strung wall to wall behind his desk, it was packed full with 1914 EK2'S!

The reason I asked about the dated waffenrock is that I too am in search of a Franco-Prussian era tunic as well. I was fortunate last year in finding one unit marked to the 10th Foot Artillery and dated 1871, close, but no cigar. I had heard a rumor that an old friend of mine had an FP era dated one, and when I spoke with him at the SOS he confirmed that he once owned one dated 1865 but that it was long gone. He further said that back when he was trying to sell it twenty years or so ago no one was interested. He more or less gave it away. Oh well, there is at least one out there anyway.

Great photos Chris, once again, thanks for sharing.

Larmo
 
Thanks Tony, for the information on the cockade pair. It really is so good having you chaps on this forum to answer all the little questions that bug me!

Glad you liked the tunic photos, Larmo. Here's another from the Guard Schuetzen Batt

tunic%20gd%20schutzen%201.jpg


I've put some more photos up on my website at www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk (mainly the colonial ones of course). Scroll down the main page to Militaria Photographs/ Other Collections/ Wehrgeschichtliches Museum, Rastatt.

As you might have guessed, I took quite a lot of photos there. Let me know if there's anything anyone specifically wants to see and I'll see if I've got it.

Cheers
Chris
 
For reference I've put most of the shoulder strap collection up here-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61398333@N08/sets/72157629649300080/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Enjoy!

Cheers
Chris
 
To expand on the subject of the two cockades: This from the Uniformirungsliste by Louis Mila published in 1876.

The important points:

1. Both the Prussian and State Cockades are worn:

a) By the citizens of non Prussian States of the German Empire, who serve in Prussian units.

b) By the Men of Oldenburg units of the standing Army.

c) By the Officers of Infantry Regiments 93 to 96.

d) By all officers of the XIV. (Baden) Army Corps, with the exception of Generals, General Staff Officers and the Officers of Prussian Regiments* attached to the XIV. Army Corps.

The instructions for Baden were introduced by a War Ministry Order of 27 June 1871 but interestingly it states that the Baden Cockade is worn above the Prussian.

Regards
Glenn

* i.e. Officers of Formed regiments (not individuals)

mila.jpg
 
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