Police helmets and headgear.

CLOVIS 57

CLOVIS 57

Well-known member
Here's my latest acquisition for the start of the year. A helmet from the Royal Bavarian Police. This post should please Schupo ;)

In general, police helmets, whether imperial, royal, ducal or communal, had silver (nickel silver) trimmings. Gendarmerie helmets have gold (brass) fittings.
Here's an initial photo to help you tell the difference between a police helmet and a Bavarian gendarmerie helmet.
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This is a Model 1886 Extra-Helm Eigentum helmet for a police officer from the Kingdom of Bavaria. Police helmets often combine a round visor with a cruciform tip base.

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Description :
Eigentum type M 1886 police helmet, silk liner, with basane sweatband. Model M1878 tip for Chevauleger (the first Bavarian helmet with a tip) but in nickel silver. Alter art landkokarde and lion's head strap for M1848 caterpillar helmet. In use until the end of 1918.

The front plate is original (identical for police or gendarme but different colour and metal). The plate is close to that of the M1914 military officers, i.e. close to the M1886 but without the 2 branches on either side of the oval coat of arms. The 3-ply banner is further away from the oval coat of arms than on the military models.

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(More to follow)
 
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Beautiful helmet (y)

Quick question, was there ever a time maybe post WWI 20's or early 30's when you would see a Bavarian Police helmet with just the National colored kokarde being worn?

Thanks in advance John Josef
 
John Josef said:
Beautiful helmet (y)

Quick question, was there ever a time maybe post WWI 20's or early 30's when you would see a Bavarian Police helmet with just the National colored kokarde being worn?

Thanks in advance John Josef
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Hello John,
Good question: as the police were not military, they were not subject to imperial reference. So in general the communal or ducal police forces only had the "Landkokarde provinciale". Only the communal police forces in the annexed Reichsland (Elsass-Lothringen) had the Reichkokarde. The Landkokarde reflected the respective area of jurisdiction of the "Land".
 
Still in Royal: A helmet of the Royal Saxon Police:
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The helmet has a standard police shell. It has a short tip with a small ball at the top, typical of police helmets, and a snap ring around the edge of the neck cover, as with the visor. Saxon police non-commissioned officer's roundel, in nickel silver, which has lost the green paint on the crown. Extra-Helm "Alter Art" style crenellated liner. The nickel silver front plate is specific to the police model in terms of detail and size.

(More to follow).
 
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This is a police helmet from a town in the Reichsland (Elsaß-Lothringen). (Strasbourg, Mulhouse, Metz, Thionville etc...) As the Reichsland was an annexed territory, it was somewhat comparable to the colonies in East Asia or South West Africa. So in this case, the Reichskokarde is black-white-red, with the imperial crown closed by W for Kaiser Wilhelm.
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In this case, it is the Imperial crown inspired by the Holy Roman Empire, not the Prussian royal crown.

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The Schell is typical of a police helmet, with nickel silver trim front and back, Extra-Helm cap with battlements and standard police crest, pike with small nickel silver ball.

3 Schutzmannschaft in METZ.
Reichspol Metz Mutze07KZ17.jpg


Schutzmannschaft in Strasbourg (Elsass)
Reichspol Strasbourg.JPG
To be followed by the Berlin police.
 
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It's gonna sound picky but I need to say it. (You will find im like that) anyhow.
You say the crown on the plate is of the Holy Roman Empire, but it actually is not. It is a non-existent crown based on the HRE's Imperial Crown. This non-existent crown was designed in 1888, as a concept for the coronation of Wilhelm II. The closest it came to existing was a wooden model. To find it, you can look up, Imperial German State Crown, you can find the model and probably a drawing of the concept.

Thanks :)
 
Kaiser Wilhelm II said:
It's gonna sound picky but I need to say it. (You will find im like that) anyhow.Vous dites que la couronne sur l’assiette est celle du Saint Empire romain germanique, mais ce n’est pas le cas. Merci:)
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Congratulations, 😇 I'm always open to contradiction, and I'm not closed-minded. In fact, I only pass on what I've read, and I have to say that if that's not the case, she bears a strong resemblance to him, I'd say she's his heir.:unsure:

fr.wikipedia.org

Couronne du Saint-Empire — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org fr.wikipedia.org
 
CLOVIS 57 said:
Congratulations, 😇 I'm always open to contradiction, and I'm not closed-minded. In fact, I only pass on what I've read, and I have to say that if that's not the case, she bears a strong resemblance to him, I'd say she's his heir.:unsure:

fr.wikipedia.org

Couronne du Saint-Empire — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org fr.wikipedia.org
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Those are good traits to have, It is always for the better to be open minded. For the Record, here is the crown concept that I am referring to here. The picture on the left is a wooden model made before a real one was created. Of course they eventually settled on a different design, which can be found if you look up, State Crown of Wilhelm II.





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Kaiser Wilhelm II said:
Those are good traits to have, It is always for the better to be open minded. For the Record, here is the crown concept that I am referring to here. The picture on the left is a wooden model made before a real one was. Of course they eventually settled on a better design, which can be found if you look up, State Crown of Wilhelm II.





View attachment 41344View attachment 41345
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I think you are confused this is not the Crown Clovis is referring to when referencing the Holy Roman Empire.

Totally different, The Holy Roman Empire goes back to Charlemagne at around 800 and the Crown back to the coronation of Otto I in 962.
 
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John Josef said:
I think you are confused this is not the Crown Clovis is referring to when referencing the Holy Roman Empire.

Totally different, The Holy Roman Empire goes back to Charlemagne at around 800 and the Crown back to the coronation of Otto I in 962.
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exactly. I do understand that. I think I'm just getting confused on where the conversation went, oh well, I've made my point, and now I'm happy.
 
Kaiser Wilhelm II said:
exactly. I do understand that. I think I'm just getting confused on where the conversation went, oh well, I've made my point, and now I'm happy.
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Clovis, Stated the Crown on the Helmet was based on the crown of the Holy Roman Empire and was enclosed with the W on the Helmet which represented Wilhelm. Separate, brought together.

Not sure how it went off the rails, no worries I think everyone is on the same page now. :unsure:

You must remember there are several members from all over the world and many others that use a translator as English is not the first language. (y)
 
John Josef said:
Clovis, Stated the Crown on the Helmet was based on the crown of the Holy Roman Empire and was enclosed with the W on the Helmet which represented Wilhelm. Separate, brought together.

Not sure how it went off the rails, no worries I think everyone is on the same page now. :unsure:

You must remember there are several members from all over the world and many others that use a translator as English is not the first language. (y)
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That was my first Impression, that I was misinterpreting questionable English that came from a translator. We are all good now.
 
We move to the "communal" police with the Schutzmannschaft BERLIN.
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As this was a large police station, in charge of the capital of the Kingdom of Prussia, we have more historical information about it.
Here are two Berlin police helmets. On the left, the M91 'campaign' chinstrap for those who were enlisted at the front, with the Prussian roundel on the left and the Imperial roundel on the right (as we shall see later) and on the right in official dress, with the M71 chinstrap with curved silver scales and a single Prussian cocade on the left.
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---1---The official ceremonial helmet is made of leather, with an Eigentum scale chinstrap and a Landkokarde on the left.
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---2---The helmet, modified for the front, is made of vulcanised fibre, a mobilisation helmet. Field M91 chinstrap, Landkokarde on the left, Reichskokarde on the right.

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The proof in pictures :
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These 2 police officers are not wearing traffic control gear, but Feldgrau front uniforms.

Let's look at the front plate:
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As Berlin is the capital of the Kingdom of Prussia, it is the royal crown that oversees the Wilhelm W.
The Berlin Police Force was created in 1848. The front plaque dates from 1854 and was used by the WFR IV until 1898, the fiftieth anniversary of its creation. On this date, two banners, 1848 and 1898, were displayed on either side of the plaque, as well as a banner with the motto "In Treue Fest". This motto is often a source of confusion, with inexperienced collectors mistaking these helmets for Bavarian ones. The plates on my helmets are therefore 1898 models, used until 1919.P1010161.JPG8, utilisés jusqu'en 1919.
Let's take a look at the origin of this motto, which we owe to Carl Teike (photo below)
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In 1883, this musician began practising in Ulm at the Württemberg 123GR. There he often travelled to Bavaria, where he memorised the motto "In Treue Fest". In 1889, he left Württemberg to join the Schutzmannschaft in Posdam. It was there that he composed, among others, the "military march" that he called "In Treue Fest". In 1898, it was this score that was played at the celebrations marking the fiftieth anniversary of the creation of this police unit. This explains the motto adopted on the helmet plates of the "Berlin Police Station" until 1919, together with the dates of the fiftieth anniversary.
 
We'll end with a "Kommunal Polizist" from the Alsatian town of Colmar.
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The condition of the bomb is 'only fair', but given the rarity of the object, that's fine by me. While there were several thousand police officers in Berlin and Hamburg, there were only about ten in Colmar! Helmet found by yours truly in an attic in this town around 1965.
 
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