Prussian Beamte

MAP

MAP

Active member
This arrived in the mail today. A dark overcast day so photos are not the best.

Condition is good. Has lost a couple of nuts/washers and maybe a star over the years that have been replaced but all seems to be intact. Some crazing to the shell but all parts appear to have been on this helmet from the beginning. Who ever owned it at one time (original owner or later) seems to have polished it up a bit as you can see some traces of black polish on the nickel silver fittings.

I know very little about Beamte helmets but it appears to be correct. No idea how to identify it beyond it being a Beamte.

All comments welcome.

Thanks!

Michael

M1895 Prussian Beamte 13.jpg

M1895 Prussian Beamte 1.jpgM1895 Prussian Beamte 2.jpgM1895 Prussian Beamte 3.jpgM1895 Prussian Beamte 4.jpgM1895 Prussian Beamte 5.jpg
 
As I noted I find these confusing. But given the lack of comments, I'm assuming there are no red flags.

Still, trying to get a better understand of these, so will continue to research on my own unless anyone has any additional information.

I do know it is pre 1905 and that it is probably from one of the following

- War Ministry technical officials
- War Ministry Senior Staff Apothecary
- Intendance
- Military Justice
- Military Construction officials
- Apothecary officials
- Telegraph officials

Anything else anyone can help out with? Anything concerning?

Thanks
 
Just a little bump on this one. Lots of views

Any thoughts, concerns or a narrowing down of what type of Beamte it is?

Thanks!
 
In any case, for me it is a beautiful helmet, even if it is not a combat unit helmet, it is still beautiful
 
gino1 said:
In any case, for me it is a beautiful helmet, even if it is not a combat unit helmet, it is still beautiful
Click to expand...

Thanks very much Gino. I would agree.

I have been looking to add one to the collection, as while not a combat related, they are an essential and official part of the military infrastructure and thus should be represented in a well rounded collection. At least that is the way I think. LoL.

Plus...I've always like the look of nickel silver fittings over brass :cool:

Still welcoming comments from anyone on any potential concerns, confirmation that there are no concerns and any other random bits of information. Thanks!
 
No red flags here, congratulations on the exhibition. My last photo is of a pharmacist with a doctor.
 

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Hello MAP,
Nice helmet . (y)

Everything's fine, just the 2 modern hex nuts, and a washer, with the centre hole too big. But these are unimportant details.
 
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Glennj said:
I would respectfully disagree with that assertion. All veterinary officials wore a infantry pattern helmet with gold fittings and a round spike base.

Regards
Glenn

View attachment 58488
Click to expand...
Thanks Glenn,
I said that from memory, I'll look it up in the ‘Pietsch’:
P1010010.JPG
The gilded brass fittings are confirmed but, according to Pietsch, the visor is square and the chinstrap scales are convex. I stand corrected.
Thanks again Glenn.
 
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Thanks Guys. Great feedback. And appreciated.

While I eagerly await what "Pietsch" says, I still get discombobulated when I try to understand how to identify these Beamte helmets.

@Naprawiacz : Very nice examples. Thanks for showing.
 
Thanks James. I remember reading this and eagerly await Randy's next instalment. Maybe I'll ask him at the Max this year
 
CLOVIS 57 said:
The gilded brass fittings are confirmed but, according to Pietsch, the visor is square
Click to expand...

yes...I am a great fan of Herr Pietsch but in this instance he got it wrong. The situation is explicitly described in both the 1902 and 1908 editions of the "Zusammenstellung der Uniformen und Abzeichen der Beamten des Königlich Preußischen Heeres". The attachment above is from the 1908 edition. These were the official dress regulations for the officials of the military administration and published under the authority of HM the Kaiser and King. The 1876 edition of Louis Mila's "Uniformirungs-Liste" shows the infantry helmet with gold fittings. The "Atlas des Deutschen Reichsheeres" from the turn of the century illustrates the Veterinary officials' helmet (infantry pattern, gold fittings, round peak). Finally, the helmet is also described in multiple editions of the "Siekmann's Taschenkalender für Beamte der Militär-Verwaltung" going back to 1878 (my earliest edition) as of the infantry pattern with round peak and gold fittings.

That said, Randy is also incorrect to ascribe the "Dragoon" style helmet as a veterinarian. The black plume is pure fantasy.

I posted this overview some time ago but here it is again.

Regards
Glenn

Square peak "dragoon style":

War Ministry - Gold fittings, no scroll, FR, silver shield, domed chin scales
War Ministry technical officials - Silver fittings, no scroll, FR, gold shield, domed chin scales
War Ministry Senior Staff Apothecary - Silver fittings, no scroll, FR, gold shield, domed chin scales
Intendance - Silver fittings, no scroll, FR, gold shield, domed chin scales *
Military Justice - Silver fittings, no scroll, FR, gold shield, domed chin scales
Military Construction officials - Silver fittings, no scroll, FR, gold shield, domed chin scales
Technical officials of the Technical Institute - Silver fittings, no scroll, FR, gold shield, domed chin scales
Apothecary officials - Silver fittings, no scroll, FR, gold shield, domed chin scales
Provisions Offices officials - Gold fittings, no scroll, FR, silver shield, domed chin scales
Garrison Administration - Gold fittings, no scroll, FR, silver shield, domed chin scales
Telegraph officials - Silver fittings, no scroll, FR, gold shield, domed chin scales
Clothing Offices officials - Gold fittings, no scroll, FR, silver shield, domed chin scales
Hospital officials - Gold fittings, no scroll, FR, silver shield, domed chin scales
War Treasury field officials - Gold fittings, no scroll, FR, silver shield, domed chin scales

* Intendance officials with the equivalence of general officers' rank wore a general officers' helmet with the small gold shield of the officials beneath the Guard star and general officer's plume.

Round peak "infantry style"

Music Inspectors - Gold fittings, scroll, FR, silver shield, domed chin scales
Veterinary officials - Gold fittings, scroll, FR, silver shield, domed chin scales
Zahlmeister - Silver fittings, scroll, FR, gold shield, domed chin scales
Waffenmeister - Gold fittings, scroll, FR, silver shield, domed chin scales, spike base studs
 
Thanks Glenn,

I think I dug that up somewhere when I was trying to do some investigation.

So as I noted in post 3, and based on your information, My example could basically be anyone of the following...but can't be narrowed down further (without more information)

- War Ministry technical officials
- War Ministry Senior Staff Apothecary
- Intendance
- Military Justice
- Military Construction officials
- Apothecary officials
- Telegraph officials

Thanks again!
 
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