Prussian Dragoons EM M1915 Pickelhaube

RON

RON

Well-known member
Sometimes it takes a neglectful collector very few years to do what an entire World War and almost a century in time couldn't... Makes me sad to see the state this pickelhaube is in right now... I believe this is a Prussian JZP M15 EM Dragoons leather pickelhaube (when the metalhelmes were in shortage)? Am I right?

But is it worth that much so far given its condition and the missing parts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW1-german-picklehauben-spike-helmet-prussian-uniform-fur-koenig-vaterland-/110741424658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c8b40a12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
This is a regular M15 Dragoner helmet, Ron. Certainly restorable, but finding the correct spike will be very hard.
 
Hey Bruno,
From what I know, 'dragoon' originally meant mounted infantry, who were trained in horse riding as well as infantry fighting skills. Towards the 18th century, dragoons evolved into conventional light cavalry units and personnel. So what was the difference between regular Prussian Dragoons and Jäger zu Pferde (also light cav.)?
As for the spike, it was a smooth one for the Prussian Dragoons (+ cruciform spike base + square visor) but I'm guessing a bit taller (the JZP type maybe) when the one on eBay seems of the Infantry type?
 
That's the right spike for the EM version M15 Dragoon (re: Larcade's Vol II). Personally, I'd rather spend much more for a good example, than a busted up thing like that, even as a restoration project it's gone beyond what I'd pay.

:D Ron
 
Agreed!
However I'm pretty sure some of us here could've made miracles with it; had it been priced more reasonably.
 
Ron,

From what I know, 'dragoon' originally meant mounted infantry, who were trained in horse riding as well as infantry fighting skills. Towards the 18th century, dragoons evolved into conventional light cavalry units and personnel. So what was the difference between regular Prussian Dragoons and Jäger zu Pferde (also light cav.)?
Click to expand...

636 The Prussian cavalry had four different arms, divided into light and heavy cavalry. Hussars (Husaren), dragoons (Dragoner) and Jäger zu Pferde belonged to the light cavalry; uhlans (Ulanen) and cuirassiers (Kürassiere) made up the heavy cavalry. Traditionally dragoons were closest to mounted infantry. Hussars traced their tradition back to Hungarian light cavalry a fact reflected in their uniforms. Uhlans followed the tradition of Polish lancers reflected in the style of their shapskas (Tschapkas). Cuirassiers were the traditional heavy cavalry still wearing their breast armor until 1888 when the breast armor was taken away except for parade purpose of the Guards’ cavalry regiments. Jäger zu Pferde were the latest arm of the cavalry created only around 1910. In Bavaria the system was more simplistic, Bavarian cavalry only consisted of uhlans, “schwere Reiter” (Bavarian cuirassiers) and Chevauxlegers, the light cavalry – chevaux legers meant light horses in French. Aristocratic Guards’ regiments such as the Regiment Gardes-du-Corps, the Garde-Kürassier Regiment in Prussia, the Carabiniers and the Regiment schwere Reiter in Saxony and the Hartschiere in Bavaria existed. Although all those different types had distinct traditions and wore different uniforms in the mid 19th century, the tactical differences were already obsolete and gone. The cavalry manuals only spoke about THE cavalry and focused on Einheitskavallerie uniform cavalry, all armed and equipped alike with a sword or saber, a carbine and after 1895 with the steel lance model 1895.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry Joe, but your reply confused even me.

Ron, the Prussian Dragoner were mounted infantry as you said. Jäger zu Pferde were originally raised from Meldareiter (mounted dispatch riders) in 1887, but ceased to be used in that function after becoming a regiment in 1901 and were employed basically as mounted light infantry, similar to Dragoon Regiments, but with cooler uniforms and helmets.
 
Sorry Joe, but your reply confused even me.
Click to expand...

What I am saying is that in the cavalry doctrine manuals there is no difference between any kind of cavalry except for their tradition and uniforms. Functionally they were all the same.
 
Joe, Tony, thanks for the info.!

From the notes I had recorded sometime ago when I was discussing my JZP M15 with you guys, it seems I have close but different dates:
"Jäger zu Pferde or mounted Jäger were the most recent addition to the cavalry, having been formed in 1897 for
intelligence and reconnaissance duties. In 1905, the Jäger zu Pferde regiments were turned into regular cavalry regiments."

So were the JZP formed in 1887, 1897 or 1910? and did they become a Regt. in 1901 or 1905?
 
Here is a correct M15 prussian Dragoner helmet:

Picture501.jpg
 
Very nice Bruno, thanks for posting.
German wartime/M1915 helmets are definitely my favorite!
 
Many thanks for the teasing Bruno; especially that they seem in excellent shape... :notworthy: War Bond helmets I presume?

Great, you got me drooling all over my laptop now... :sleepy3:

Any good M15 Prussian Kürassier, Pelzmütze, Tschako, Filzhelme, Baden Haube, Bayern Haube, etc. spare for sale; just let me know... \:D/
 
:happy4:
911car said:
Thank you, Ron. If you like M15 models, here is a small (non-exhaustive) assortment:
Click to expand...

I am GREY with envy. Looks so good! Love the Pelz, looks like one on Weitze a couple months ago that i was eyeballing.
 
911car said:
Here is a correct M15 prussian Dragoner helmet:
Click to expand...


Evidently a disadvantage to not reading French very well. He did show one without the pearl ring and one with... Beautiful helmet by the way! I've the Bavarian 'version'.

:D Ron
 
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