Prussian Unterzahlmeister Pickelhaube
- Thread starter pjm
- Start date
Are you sure? looks like a Pioneer, no small adler on wappen for zahlmeister?
Either way, nice looking helmet.
James
Either way, nice looking helmet.
James
Zahlmeister wappen shown below
According to the regulations posted above the Unterzahlmeister does not have the eagle insignia. A photo included in the thread below shows an identical configuration in which you wrote "I interpreted the text exactly like Wojtek, but since Glenn's quote came from the „Armee-Verordnungsblatt“ I guess his Helmet wore no little eagle."
Unterzahlmeister wappen
Adler the lowest in the hierarchy of military officials who served on active duty in the army.
www.pickelhaubes.com
Last edited:
not trying to knock the helmet, but I still think it is most likely a Pioneer officer.
A Unterzahlmeister helmet would have studs instead of stars and the crown on wappen would not be voided.
The helmet shown is clearly an officer helmet.
Just my opinion.
James
A Unterzahlmeister helmet would have studs instead of stars and the crown on wappen would not be voided.
The helmet shown is clearly an officer helmet.
Just my opinion.
James
ww1czechlegion
Well-known member
No it is not the same identical helmet, sorry.
Take a look at the difference in the eagle on your helmet compared to the eagle on the helmet on the right in the photo you posted. One is a regular Line eagle in silver (on your helmet), and the one in the photo on the right you posted is a Reservist silver eagle which does not have the motto banner on the eagle. Notice the different eagles on your helmet and the one posted on post #8 directly above my posting here?
Best Wishes,
Alan
pjm,
First of all, welcome to the forum, and I think that you have a great helmet! However, I believe James is correct.
If you look at the cockade on your pickelhaube, you will notice that each one is accented with two silver rings indicating an officer. At the same time, NCO cockade would have only one silver ring on each. Ergo with the already mentioned stars and voided Adler crown, all in silver, indicate it is a Pioneer officer private purchase pickelhaube.
I am no expert by any means an expert, and I rely heavily on both James's and Sandy's experiences to identify things that I sometimes overlook or have little or no knowledge of in the background on Pickenhalben.
Best regards
John
First of all, welcome to the forum, and I think that you have a great helmet! However, I believe James is correct.
If you look at the cockade on your pickelhaube, you will notice that each one is accented with two silver rings indicating an officer. At the same time, NCO cockade would have only one silver ring on each. Ergo with the already mentioned stars and voided Adler crown, all in silver, indicate it is a Pioneer officer private purchase pickelhaube.
I am no expert by any means an expert, and I rely heavily on both James's and Sandy's experiences to identify things that I sometimes overlook or have little or no knowledge of in the background on Pickenhalben.
Best regards
John
Sandmann
Well-known member
Unterzahlmeister pickelhaube w Muzeum Naprawiacza
Unterzahlmeister pickelhaube - Administracja wojskowa prowadzona była przez płatnika, który wywodził się z dawnych "księgowych". Starszy płatnik (Oberzahlmeister) i płatnik (Zahlmeister) byli urzędnikami wojskowymi średniego... - Zobacz eksponat w Wirtualnym Muzeum
myvimu.com
Naprawiacz
Well-known member
I don't know how it would come out in the Polish-to-English translation. "The military administration was run by a paymaster, who descended from the old "accountants." The Senior Paymaster (Oberzahlmeister) and Paymaster (Zahlmeister) were mid-level military officials, the subordinate Paymasters (Unterzahlmeister) were soldiers. In general, the Senior-Paymaster was responsible for the staff, and the Paymaster was responsible for managing the clothing, for each battalion or department, and the Sub-Paymaster as "treasurer." Cavalry regiments had only one Paymaster-Officer and one Sub-Paymaster, while Engineering Battalions had 2 Officers and one Sub-Paymaster.All paymasters had to wear uniforms like officers. However, the uniforms of hospital clerks, provincial clerks, garrison clerks and clothing department clerks had white cloth badges instead of cornflower, lemon yellow, light blue and red badges. Paymasters, however, had silver buttons, which were always plain (even for clerks, since they were military). Accordingly, they had silver crescents, silver and blue stripes on epaulettes (Epauletten-Tressen) and loops on (Passanten-Tressen) and epaulettes. Military-Officers also wore a silver-blue Military-Officialsportépee.Pickelhaube had a rounded visor and a plain spike on a round shield, an eagle on a hauberk with a motto and a small eagle.In the last photo, promotion ranks in the form of headgear.
Sandmann
Well-known member
I read about it again and you are right, a sub-paymaster helmet had officially no small eagle (Beamtenabzeichen) on the helmet Wappen (although I think that helmets with such small eagle are original). But it is also described in the „Armee-Verordnungsbl.“ of June 1, 1906 (page 166), that a sub-paymaster helmet would have halfround headed pins in place of the stars to fix the spike.
However, I could imagine that this is a paymaster helmet that lost the little eagle. Have you seen photos of the back, if there are small scratches or signs of wear of such a small eagle? If there ever was such a little eagle, I think it should have left some marks.
However, I could imagine that this is a paymaster helmet that lost the little eagle. Have you seen photos of the back, if there are small scratches or signs of wear of such a small eagle? If there ever was such a little eagle, I think it should have left some marks.
Amybellars
Well-known member
Sandy
I second your recent findings that if no eagle then shd have dome studs.
Stubb in his book on page 463 mentioned the same too.
I second your recent findings that if no eagle then shd have dome studs.
Stubb in his book on page 463 mentioned the same too.