Prussian Weissenburger EM pickelhaube
- Thread starter giorgio
- Start date
CLOVIS 57
Well-known member
Congratulations Giorgio,
Von der Heyden not current, and in very good condition.
I notice a few confusions:
---The Württemberg Weissenburger-Cannstatt (Stuttgart) and the Bavarian Bing-Nurnberg were not Ersatz, because they were the subject of a registered patent and a contract specifically signed with the High Staff . All other sheet metal spike helmets (steel, aluminum, brass) are effectively ersatz.The finish of the Weissenburger is irreproachable and the assembly is not simplified as for the Ersatz. Here the visor and the neck cover are crimped in the bomb, while the Ersatz are stamped with a single pancake of sheet metal.
---The Weissenburger firm (Cannstatt) is the depositary of the patent for this model with its particularities (I will come back to the details later) The Weissenburgers show front plates from Württemberg.
---Weissenburger has delegated part of the manufacture of its helmets to the firm R.von der Heyden-Berlin. The helmet is strictly the same, but these VdH show Prussian line eagles, for the Prussian army.
---The Weissenburgers have no branding, while the VdH have the initials VdH Berlin under the visor.
Von der Heyden not current, and in very good condition.
I notice a few confusions:
---The Württemberg Weissenburger-Cannstatt (Stuttgart) and the Bavarian Bing-Nurnberg were not Ersatz, because they were the subject of a registered patent and a contract specifically signed with the High Staff . All other sheet metal spike helmets (steel, aluminum, brass) are effectively ersatz.The finish of the Weissenburger is irreproachable and the assembly is not simplified as for the Ersatz. Here the visor and the neck cover are crimped in the bomb, while the Ersatz are stamped with a single pancake of sheet metal.
---The Weissenburger firm (Cannstatt) is the depositary of the patent for this model with its particularities (I will come back to the details later) The Weissenburgers show front plates from Württemberg.
---Weissenburger has delegated part of the manufacture of its helmets to the firm R.von der Heyden-Berlin. The helmet is strictly the same, but these VdH show Prussian line eagles, for the Prussian army.
---The Weissenburgers have no branding, while the VdH have the initials VdH Berlin under the visor.
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CLOVIS 57
Well-known member
For chinstraps:
---Has a rivet for VdH and Weissenburger. (X2)
---Has two rivets for BING.(X2)
And I agree with Philippe, about the "trunnion key". Simple passing or in trigger guard it is only about a variant of production. On the other hand, the spacing of the lug also varied according to the thickness of the key.Thin keys were for felt bombs and Ersatz.
---Has a rivet for VdH and Weissenburger. (X2)
---Has two rivets for BING.(X2)
And I agree with Philippe, about the "trunnion key". Simple passing or in trigger guard it is only about a variant of production. On the other hand, the spacing of the lug also varied according to the thickness of the key.Thin keys were for felt bombs and Ersatz.
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giorgio
Active member
First of all really thanks for getting in........really useful....
...but now, few questions.
-Do you think I have to keep it like that or have I to try to replace the cockades and chinstrap?
-In case of "yes", is it difficult to find such items?
-and, always in case of "yes", do you know where I could find'em?
Of course everybody can answers to these questions.....
Regards
Giorgio
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coert65
Well-known member
If I were you, I'd keep it as it is.Firs of all really thanks for getting in........really useful....
...but now, few questions.
-Do you think I have to keep it like that or have I to try to replace the cockades and chinstrap?
-In case of "yes", is it difficult to find such items?
-and, always in case of "yes", do you know where I could find'em?
Of course everybody can answers to these questions.....
Regards
Giorgio
But those are just my thoughts about it.
I agree with Coert….leave it as is for now. I might have seen two riveted chin straps in 40+ years of collecting. I have never seen a strap with 2 rivets as Clovis showed us, I didn’t even know there was such a thing. Regarding the kokarden with V cut again, very rare in my experience. I did find one Prussian on an M15 haube once but that was pure luck. This is my experience while living in CN and going to US shows. Perhaps, things are different in Europe?? In the mean time keep looking and collecting, if you see any of these “Uber rare parts”….pounce! 
PS: My thanks to Clovis for his posts and photos, I learned a great deal.
PS: My thanks to Clovis for his posts and photos, I learned a great deal.
coert65
Well-known member
Brian, here in Europe those parts are also difficult to find. My VdH, and Bing also have the usual cockarden and chinstrap. No Kokarden with the v-cutout, and no riveted straps. I do have kokarden with the v-cutout on my Saxon M15 though..I agree with Coert….leave it as is for now. I might have seen two riveted chin straps in 40+ years of collecting. I have never seen a strap with 2 rivets as Clovis showed us, I didn’t even know there was such a thing. Regarding the kokarden with V cut again, very rare in my experience. I did find one Prussian on an M15 haube once but that was pure luck. This is my experience while living in CN and going to US shows. Perhaps, things are different in Europe?? In the mean time keep looking and collecting, if you see any of these “Uber rare parts”….pounce!
So, I'd leave things as they are on your helmet @giorgio . Or hunt for them, and find them one by one, but it isn't easy to find these.
Regards, have a nice Christmas friends!
Coert.
CLOVIS 57
Well-known member
On the M91 and following models, the trunnion system has the advantage of being easily exchangeable. But it is also a disadvantage. This is how many spiked helmets were removed, as a trophy, stripped of their chinstrap and cockades.
Chinstraps and rosettes are therefore in high demand, and are difficult to find. Keep this helmet as is for now, these are "accessory" parts details. The helmet itself is superb, and that's the main thing. And then you have the original models in photography... if one day... on E-Bay, or on the Stock Exchange-Militaria... You never know...
Chinstraps and rosettes are therefore in high demand, and are difficult to find. Keep this helmet as is for now, these are "accessory" parts details. The helmet itself is superb, and that's the main thing. And then you have the original models in photography... if one day... on E-Bay, or on the Stock Exchange-Militaria... You never know...
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As far as I know "Ersatz" means replacement, as in replacement for materials that are scarce / no longer available, and / or processes that take too much time when there is a great demand. In this case that would be replacement for leather / the manufacture of leather helmets. All deliveries to the German army were contracted, so I don't see that as a defining factor.
If this is a variant of production, where are the steel versions of the "end points" (Metallösen) without the semicircular cut-out? As the Germans were constantly trying to reduce the weight of the equipment (see for instance the manual for the 1895 infantry equipment where the weights of the previous model's components were compared to the new) it makes good sense to cut away unnecessary material. All the helmet components had specified weight ranges that the producers had to comply with, leaving extra material in the Metallösen would just make it harder to comply, and add cost.
I would absolutely leave it as it is!
Even though I think that the chinstrap was made earlier than the helmet, that doesn't mean that the chinstrap doesn't belong on the helmet. They might very well have been paired during its time in service in the German army.
I don't know if this was the type of Kokarden that the helmet was made with, but again, if not, they might very well have been paired during its time in service in the German army. They are not wrong on the helmet, they have the correct size and colours.
Regards,
Lars