See anything unusual?

Joe, that would be speculation, which as you know, is 98% of this hobby. But it could be as mundane as Zoll officers posing for a photo with some soldiers.
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So true so true.

There actually is a museum of German Zoll. Amazingly it is located in Hamburg. There is a page on the helmets. They have a picture of a Lubeck helmet.
http://www.zoll.de/h0_wir_ueber_uns/h0_zollmuseum/c0_exponate/z99_lederhelm/index.html

There are a number of one-piece officer cockades with small holes running around from the Hansa cities. One story goes that these cockades came off Zoll and police helmets. I don't know.
 
Joe

What was the link for the Hamburg Zoll? That was a totally interesting helmet. When I first saw it, I thought it might be the wappen on the helmet of the first man with the Zoll helmet.
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=140097133775&rd=1&rd=1

This was the helmet on eBay -- I don't know how long they will keep it up before the pictures are taken down.
 
Wyliecoyote said:
Nice clear photo T! I am not really up on these Zoll Beamte types, could you identify him for us?
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Sorry, I have very few references on civilian helmets. Based on the link Joe posted, that certailly looks like a Hamburg Zoll helmets in the photo eh? When I am in Hamburg this summer, I doubt if the custom's officer's will be wearing them.
biggrin.gif
 
If antone want's a tad more detail on the gew88/98 wartime shortages - especially pre 1916 you need to get ahold of a copy of Deiter Storz's most excellent work on the gew98/kar98a. It's simply titled "M98 RIFLE & CARBINE". AGM has it on their website for something like $130 and it's worth every penny.
 
Cannot see the shoulder boards however, the back of the card is stamped.


Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 38
R
Aufgestellt in Schweidnitz (R.Stb., I., II.) und Glatz (III.) Unterstellung: Festungsbesatzung Breslau, 21. L.I.Brig.
Kommandeur:Oberstleutnant v. Roos 15.10.14
I.:Oberstleutnant z. D. v. Reuss
II.:
III.:Oberstleutnant a. D. Görlitz



ps981a by joerookery, on Flickr
 
Could this possibly be as simple as reservists being called up and since they were Customs men the supply sergeant simply said, "We're a bit short on helmets and since you've already got a Zoll helmet, just wear it."? If they were going to wear a cover on it anyway, who'd know?
 
Could this possibly be as simple as reservists being called up and since they were Customs men the supply sergeant simply said, "We're a bit short on helmets and since you've already got a Zoll helmet, just wear it."? If they were going to wear a cover on it anyway, who'd know?
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I think Mike is right. Something akin to this anyway. However, there are two additional problems. The unit comes from lower Silesia. Why is the minor state Wappen on one of the soldiers??? There were no such Wappen anywhere near Lower Silesia. The second question is far more esoteric. Are these guys custom or police? Based on information in the Radeke source the differences is the spike base.


ps1138b by joerookery, on Flickr

This is considered a helmet for either military or civil Beamte model 1896.

The real key is not the very specialized spike but rather the spike base. This one is round. The exact same helmet with a cruciform spike base is for the police. While this one is probably customs often the police helmets are confused with customs.
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ps1139b by joerookery, on Flickr
 
nice pic anyway, on my part I noticed the unusual place of the numbers on the helmet cover, the 76 is very low on 2 of the covers, never seen them sewn so low :)
 
Time to revive this thread ( almost 6 1/2 years later!). A question I missed back in 2007 Joe, so do you think they are RJR 76?

Recently I came across what looks like your average group photo of an unidentified unit of Alte Armee troops. The sender has identified himself on the photo with an "X". Sadly though, the reverse is totally blank, so no date or unit I.D. The men are armed with a mix of Rifle 88 and Rifle 71. We also see a fine mix of helmets, including M95/97 and ersatz feldgrau filz too.

9578302347_74d3a5f718_c.jpg


Even though the photo is blank at the reverse, we have some clear images of "76" shoulder straps. These fellows are located bottom right on the photo.

9581174926_06dfb9c4de_c.jpg


And these men also with "76" boards at bottom left.

9581173524_cda68ceca9_c.jpg
 
Breaking down the photo in the left half, we the sender in his pork pie hat identified in the photo with an "X", and the mix of ersatz filz and leather M95 pickelhauben. Also note that these men wear a single ammo pouch, probably assigned to a wache in a rear area, perhaps even in Hamburg.

9581086036_52214f9072_c.jpg


On the bottom left of the photo, we find what is difficult to say whether or not this is a Zoll Beampte or Beampte wappen, or even polizist, but that spike is unmistakable, it is a civilian official type.

9581202710_ce160c20bc_c.jpg
 
Now on the right side of the photo we have the same neat mix of head gear and rifles, but now look at the fellow kneeling at bottom right. Can you notice the distinct helmet wappen and spike?

9581084776_da6f060852_c.jpg


If only he came out clearer, perhaps sunlight has reflected off of the brass hardware causing the distortion. No doubt a civil servant's helmet.

9581101086_7ea768d821_c.jpg


So both photos share the civil servant helmets and "76" shoulder boards, RJR or IR 76?
 
Hey George,

Looking at the LEFT HALF of your latest photo and the closeup underneath with the typical Schutzmannschaftspitze (Constable Spike) but a very blurry wappen, I would venture and say the pickelhaube in question is that of a Kaiserliche Schutzmannschaft (Imperial Constabulary) Schutzmann (Police Sergeant) (1st photo below) or more likely that of a Prussian Schutzmannschaft (State Constabulary) Schutzmann (Police Sergeant) (2nd photo below), M1868 or later with neusilber metal fixtures (at least prior to the war) if I'm not mistaken:
GermanKaiserlicheElsass-LothringenSchutzmannschaftHelmetM1868-1_zps7c31d631.jpg

GermanKoumlniglicheMediatstaumldtenSchutzmannschaftHelmet-c1866-1918b_zps598d1fd8.png


I had to scrutinize photos of such types of helmets "extensively" with some help from the experts here when I recently bought my Schutzmannschaft Polizeiwachtmeister M1895 Pickelhaube:
GermanKaiserlicheAlsatianPoliceEMPickelhaube-a_zps7e2d4a8e.jpg


For more see here (start with the last posts and go upwards).
 
Ron that is a terrific comparison, Thank You for posting these!

If I were to guess, and this IS a guess, I would think that in the photo there is way too much glare going on for it to be the Kaiserliche Schutzmannschaft type in the top example, and could be more like the bottom Prussian Schutzmannschaft posted.

Both are fantastic helmets, Thanks again for posting the photos, a great big help!
 

ps1139b by joerookery, on Flickr[/quote]

I do believe this is the same type of helmet worn by the fellow at bottom right of the newest photo. Joe identifies it as a
Prussian Kommunalpolizei model 1896.

A match perhaps?

9581101086_7ea768d821_c.jpg
 
George, my thought too! Actually, going back to that same LEFT photo section, there's a much clearer Prussian Schutzmannschaft Schutzmann in the 2nd/middle row, 3rd fellow from left... so I guess both fellows were Prussian State Constables.

Unfortunately, only the 3rd helmet I posted belongs to me: Kaiserliche Schutzmannschaft (Imperial Constabulary) Polizeiwachtmeister (Police Sergeant-Major) Model 1895 with a leather chinstrap.
 
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