shoulder boards

-dick rowback

New member
:? :-? :???: Hi; I'm wondering where I might find more information on how to identify shulterklappen/shulterstuck and how to ID them to the proper years of being issued??? I think I have the 1915/16 changes but need help on the 1900 & 1910. I see them in so many different colors also, how can I be sure ??? Are there any books or websites for this type of ID. Very CONFUSED Dick Roback
 
:D :D I should have looked on Tonys website, there right before my eyes [if I open them] lots of information & charts about the 1914 shoulderboards. Still have lots to learn about them though!! Dick
 
You got it right Dick Tony has the best site for shoulder strap ID. However, there are also many experts on the forum here like Chip Minx and Dave Mosher who will help you out as well. I also have gotten into boards as they are very cool and look so good when placed beside a regimentally marked haube. Brian
 
Lets see if we can clarify this a bit for you Dick...

M1895 Dunkelblau Waffenrock Achselklappe (die) (plural - Achselklappen) - Enlisted mans shoulder straps.

First off, it is important to remember that Dunkelblau Waffenrocks are not dress uniforms, they were worn in the field until the introduction of the Feldgrau Feldrock in 1907/10.

M1895 Dunkelblau Waffenrock straps are in the Armee-Korps (Army Corps) color and are (in the order of seniority) white, red, yellow, or blue. These colors repeat themselves in this order. When the XXI Amree-Korps was raised in 1912, they adopted green straps; no other Korps has this color, although some units (like IR114) were green. Note that the strap is sewn into the seam. Straps were backed in dark blue for the Waffenrock, light grey for the M1907 greatcoat.

pre1910_Waffenrock.jpg


For cyphered Regiments (from left to right in the photo below), issue examples (for cyphers only) were made of felt and hand-sewn, or chain-stitched. Private purchase examples are much higher quality and are often hand embroidered over a paper template. Only Mecklenburg issued shoulder straps with red printed numbers and cyphers (far right)

pre1910_Waffenrock_cyphers.jpg


There was a unique way that at least one manufacturer made straps only for Württemberg units. They are felt, but padded.

The list below indicates the primary Armee-Korps piping colors which is reflected by the strap color. For officer boards, the underlay matched the colors of the Mannschaften (Other Ranks) shoulder straps. This applies only to Infantry and Artillery straps. Other arms such as cavalry, Jäger etc used piping not in alliance with Armee Korps.

- White: I, II, IX, X, XII, & I Bavarian
- Red: III, IV XI, XIII XV, XIX, & II Bavarian
- Yellow: V, VI, XVI, XVIII, & III Bavarian
- Blue: VII, VIII, XVIII, XX
- Green: XXI

Piping exceptions due to seniority and Regimental distinctions:

White: 1st and 5th Garde Regt zu Füß, 1st and 5th Guard Grenadiers, Infanterie Regiments 109, 110, 116

Red: 2nd Foot Garde Regt zu Füß, 2nd Guard Grenadiers, 11 Battalion 89th Grenadiers, Infanterie Regiments 111, 115, 168, 169, 171 and 172.

Yellow: 3rd Garde Regt zu Füß, 3rd Guard Grenadiers, Guard Füsiliers, Infanterie Regiments 112, 118 and 142.

Blue: 4th Garde Regt zu Füß, 4th Guard Grenadiers, Infanterie Regiments 40, 113, 145 and 170.

Green: 114th Reqt.

After the war started, there was no need for the colored Dunkelblau, and it was made obsolete in 1915. So there were a LOT of pre war straps in storage, that have survived, but were never issued and have no sewing marks or button holes. I have dozens and dozens with no button holes.

Another factor, is that the Dunkelblau straps were sewn into the shoulder seam, so they could not come off. So many manufacturers did not make a buttonholes, as really it served no purpose. A small slit was made in the strap and the button loop slid through and sewn to the shoulder. I have several Waffenrocks like this.

Occasionally straps will be found with a faded diamond shape at the bottom. That indicates that the strap once part of one of the famous "strap blankets", where hundreds of original straps, many never issued (hence the lack of a button hole) were sewn to many other straps, and the faded mark at the bottom is from the strap that was below it. I have about 20 or so like this. The only blanket that survives that I know of, is in Rastatt. I have seen it several times. To a strap collector like myself, I suppose it is like a mid-western American housewife going to Graceland.

Rastatt_1.jpg
 
:D Thanks Tony for the help it seems pretty straght forward, I just need some practise in identification. Also thanks Brian for the names of other knowledgeable people that can help me! One other question is how do you ID some of these shoulder straps [with higher numbers] with Armee Korps?? Units? Histories?? I guess I'm referring to Tonys article on the 1021 foot artillery that manned the 24cm Railway guns. Where do you find histories on these units, if you do not have access to "the honour book"?? Just interested in adding some history to my helmets or shoulder straps. Dick
 
:cheers: Tony; This is a late response, but I have a question on the Mecklenberg shoulder board. When you say that the cypher or number was printed what did you mean? 1] that the cypher/number was directly "printed" on the board in some type of ink? or [2] that the cypher/number was a "printed " or "cut out" seperate piece of material? I was told by another source that none of the cyphers or numbers were ever directly "printed" onto the shoulder board, not even Mecklenberg. Maybe I misunderstood about the "printed" part?? Dick
 
dick roback said:
that the cypher/number was directly "printed" on the board in some type of ink?

That's it. This was unique to Mecklenburgisches units, Infantry and Artillery. On the left, a printed strap for the I & III Bn of 1. Großherzoglich Mecklenburgisches Grenadier-Regt. Nr.89. On the right, a cord and felt example for the II Bn.

GR89.jpg
 
:D Tony; Thanks for helping us clear up the "printed shoulder board" issue, I think! The next question is who or what rank of soldier wore these "boards" ,were they "privates" or ?? Dick
 
dick roback said:
:D Tony; Thanks for helping us clear up the "printed shoulder board" issue, I think! The next question is who or what rank of soldier wore these "boards" ,were they "privates" or ?? Dick

Dick, you are asking the wrong question. The question should not be "what rank", the question should be "issued or private purchase?".

All ranks, from Private to Feldwebel would have worn the printed verion on an issued Waffenrock. All ranks, from Private to Feldwebel would have worn a cord or hand-embroidered strap on an Eigetumsstück Waffenrock. This had nothing to do with rank, it had everything to do with what the soldier could afford.
 
Hi everyone!

I started reenact german grenadier of 2 gren. reg. (full german name: Königlich-Preußisches Grenadier-Regiment König Friedrich Wilhelm IV. (1. Pommersches) Nr. 2). Period time is 1910 - 1916.
I have question about Schulterklappen in 1914. What color was it (white or feldgrau)? What color was inscription? Weared of course to Waffenrock M1910.

Sorry if my questions look like questions of child. Also sorry for my english.
Gruss aus Stettin!
 
Hey Qrak
Welcome to the forum, hopefully Tony will have an answer for you, I am not sure of all the possibilities.
Best
gus
 
Hi qrak,

I started reenact german grenadier of 2 gren. reg. (full german name: Königlich-Preußisches Grenadier-Regiment König Friedrich Wilhelm IV. (1. Pommersches) Nr. 2). Period time is 1910 - 1916.
I have question about Schulterklappen in 1914. What color was it (white or feldgrau)? What color was inscription? Weared of course to Waffenrock M1910.

If I remember pre-war shoulder strap of the Gre.-Regimen Nr.2 was white with red cypher, for feldgrau uniforms the cypher was red but I'm not sure about the piping - if it was white or red.
In 1914 many units (Rekruten-Depot, Ersatz-Bataillons) in the Garrisons used old pre-war uniforms. Sometimes it was completely mish-mash.

Cheers,
Milosz
 
Hello qrak,

Welcome to the forum.

If you are wanting to know about the the field gray shoulder straps of 1914, the straps of the Gren.Rgt.Nr.2 would have had white piping and red cypher and crown. The pattern being worn at that time was the M1907, which was beginning to be modified even before the end of 1914.

I don't have a M1907 example, but if it would help, I do have a M07 from another grenadier regiment that I could show you. It is also white piped. I also have examples from the Dunkelblau uniform and the 1915 Bluse from the Gren.Rgt.Nr.2.

Best regards,
Chip
 
Hi!
Thank you for answers.
I understand that these straps:
http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/straps.htm
are to dunkelblau uniforms?
So correct straps on 1914 year should look like this?:


Or should it be like garde grenadiers (in 1907 Kaiser Wilhelm II distinguished grenadiers and allowed to wear the collar and cuffs Guard Tape).

Gruss aus rainy Stettin.
 
The strap would have looked just like this M15 from the front, only it would have been one centimeter wider (total 5.5cm).

Chip

 
Nice sample Chip :)
I like feldgru shoulder straps.

If we are in matter of Gren.Rgt.Nr.2
I was wondering how looks shoulder strop of the
Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 2

I suppose it is number 2? but could you confirm that Chip?
 
Milosz,

Yes, an M15 from Res.Inf.Rgt.Nr.2 would be just like this, only with a red #2 on it (no crown or cypher).

Chip
 
Wow Joe, that just boggles the mind!!! Good God!!! Qrak, welcome to the forum...your English is excellent! Unfortunately, I have no Polish. Keep posting questions! Das ist nicht kinder hier!
 
Thank you for your answers.
Thanks also for the friendly welcome.
I will be asking more questions, because in Poland there are very few books about this period and this army.
Pozdrawiam/Best
 
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