Spikeless artillery

joerookery

joerookery

Well-known member
I thought this was a rather interesting picture. The postcard is identified as an artillery unit and is dated 1918. From the Kostel collection.
no_spike_arty.jpg
 
Very interesting photo, One wearing an M1915 Bluse, all with M1915 gas masks and a mixture of ammo pouches.
Gus
 
joerookery said:
I thought this was a rather interesting picture. The postcard is identified as an artillery unit and is dated 1918. From the Kostel collection.
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Errrrrr Joe what's wrong with calling the thread Ball Less Artillery. Technically it's correct :p
 
Hey Mike,
You mean these guys have no balls? If they had be Bavarian, they could have been spikeless.
Gus
 
Gustaf said:
Hey Mike,
You mean these guys have no balls? If they had be Bavarian, they could have been spikeless.
Gus
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Very true Gus ..... But they ain't Bavarian ..... They're Prussian and are therefore missing their Balls. :p Now!!! back to the picture. Very interesting Joe. It seems strange that artillery guys would remove the top of the helmet. I thought this was mainly done when troops went on trench raids etc.
 
Hey Mike,
I think that all active troops removed the spike/ball when in front line service, we have even seen photos of troops gaurding prisoners behind the lines with spikeless Hauben.
By the way, when are we going to start a thread on Soldbücher?
Gus
 
Gustaf said:
Hey Mike,
I think that all active troops removed the spike/ball when in front line service, we have even seen photos of troops gaurding prisoners behind the lines with spikeless Hauben.
By the way, when are we going to start a thread on Soldbücher?
Gus
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Good point Gus :-# got me there.

I'll start that thread when I've eventually bought a scanner. Not a good idea to start a thread about paperwork when you can't provide good close-up pictures !!!! Having said that, I have started to collate a lot of the information about the Militarpass and Soldbuch that I've got in my collection. So things are on the move \:D/
 
Great Mike,
I have only one Soldbuch, but it has a wealth of information, if I can ever get the time to sit down and translate it all (the script is such that I have a great deal of difficulty in reading it)
Best wihses
Gus
PS I think I have a post office story that you will have difficulty in topping. Yesterday, the Postmistress from the nearby town (12 miles away) hand delivered a letter to my door, the sender got this same day service for the sum of 87 cents, if he would have sent the letter by next day mail, it would have cost him $14.95
 
Spikes (and balls..) were to be removed during field maneuvers as well as during front duty. This brings up another question: It seems there should be many more helmets missing the spike. Virtually every M15 brought back as front souvenir should lack its original spike, unless the nicknack-hunter searched the pockets of its carrier, who would be either dead or captured?

BTW, were would you put your spike when you remove it? Better not in the hip pocket, I guess :D .
 
It seems there should be many more helmets missing the spike.
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Amen brother! I guess most collectors don't want to have one in their collection like that. I know Randy has one without its spike. I do not.

Spikes (and balls..) were to be removed during field maneuvers as well as during front duty.
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Where did you find this? I have heard this a lot, and I know there is an AKO of 28 June 1915 that I do not currently have. Perhaps it is in there. As I am recently looking at Uberzugs I have found many mismatches. This thought does not match with the pictures. There are pictures of units in the field with a mix of helmets. Like the one below that give the impression that perhaps the balls were removed.
group1_2.jpg

However, there are a great deal of marching out photos without a spike. Or even marching out photos that are half and half. Were they ever issued a spike?
nospikegroup.jpg
 
Ahhh.... its always so interestingly human when our male testosterone gets us into quipping each other about spikes and balls. BTW I would never have made this comment when I was 25! Regarding spikes and balls, many helmets for sale have had replacement original spikes and balls put back on. In addition, many helmets on the US market are bond helmets or helmets that were bought from war surplus after the war. These came with spikes and balls. There are also still many helmets with missing tops up for sale. Brian
 
Joe: I came across the following translation of a letter that might be of interest concerning the removal of leather helmets from field service.

War Ministry - Berlin W. 66
Army Administrative Department - 11 February 1917
No. 701/2.17 B 3 C b

The department has cause to point out the decree of 30 August 1916 (No. 958/8. 16. B 3 C), according to which:
I. The troops equipped with steel helmets have sent back their superflous leather helmets to the replacement troops sections and,
II. for the duration of this withdrawl (of leather helmets), the steel helmets are to remain in the field and, with a change of the unit's position, are to be brought along on the pack wagons.

Enclosures
(signed)
von Oven


Reservist1
 
Where did you find this? I have heard this a lot, and I know there is an AKO of 28 June 1915 that I do not currently have
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Jürgen Kraus in "Die feldgraue Uniformierung des Deutschen Heeres 1907 bis 1918" lists these references: AVBl. Jg. 49 (1915) Page 422; Bav. VBL. 1916, Pages 328-344; Saxon MVBl. Jg. 24 (1915), Page 506; Württemb. MVBl. 1915 Pages 556 and 559

Great book, got copies because its sold out. It also goes into detail about the two-piece Überzugs for detachable spikes.
 
"Die feldgraue Uniformierung des Deutschen Heeres 1907 bis 1918"
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Robert thanks!
In a good news, bad news department, I have loaned out my two-volume Kraus and do not have access to it. But it is being reprinted. An enlarged version is supposed to be coming out in February of next year. Now I would love to see what it says about the two-part Uberzug.The references you cited are from the war ministries of the various contingents. So constitutionally there must be something Prussian that started it off. I'm back to begging Glenn for some part of the AVB around that time.

R1 thank you also that makes total sense. It also explains the late war pickelhaube pictures in the recruit depots. Can you put up a scan of the letter? That is really fantastic.
 
Joe: The February 11, 1917, letter concerning the removal of leather helmets from from field service appears in two copyrighted texts. A scan of the original letter is on page 15 of Die Geschichte Des Deutschen Stahlhelmes von 1915 bis 1945 by Ludgiw Baer. The English translation of the letter is on page 40 of The History of the German Steel Helmet, 1916-1945 also by Ludwig Baer.

Reservist1
 
I am not sure that those refs will clarify any sort of policy. There were a lot of Clothing Depots in many Armee-Korps and we are also talking about 4 different Kingdoms with command structures and different directives. Some may have issued M15 with spike to be retained by the soldier. Some may have ordered the spikes removed and left with the baggage wagons. Some may have issued them without the spike. Some may have had spikes only removed in the front line or on raids. Even in group photos some have spikes mounted, some do not. I really do not think you are going to find a clear cut answer to this.
 
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