The forgotten Hessian
- Thread starter Adler
- Start date
weirdpyramid
New member
:thumb up: :thumb up: :thumb up: :thumb up:
You know I love this helmet!
You know I love this helmet!
pppara
Active member
the FAR 25 rgt was awarded the star of the ludwig order on 1915....so only the star was added....moreover Officers paid their helmets so....they did what they wanted. You could find M15 officer style like you said....but it's not fatal...
this helmet was for parade or current service....not for combat....
regards
pp
this helmet was for parade or current service....not for combat....
regards
pp
Khukri
Well-known member
Some reference stuff:
from J-L Larcade Vol II-page 164.
"-dd 06 April 1915: awarded the Stern of the LudwigsOrden with Schwerter (Star of the Order of Louis with Swords-because it was awarded in time of war) for the 125 anniversary of the creation of the Regt.
This Silver Star, with enamelled centre for the Offz, finally, will only be worn by the Offz; because the Mannsch
never received the new Wappen… From then on this Regt holds the Ludwigs Orden. Offz from then on
wear the four gold plated Offz stars on the base plate of the Kugelspitze*"
(*Can be seen in "Spiked Helmets of Imperial Germany" page 176)
More to read in: "Imperial German Military Officers Helmets"-N.G.Stubbs: page 391.
Francis
from J-L Larcade Vol II-page 164.
"-dd 06 April 1915: awarded the Stern of the LudwigsOrden with Schwerter (Star of the Order of Louis with Swords-because it was awarded in time of war) for the 125 anniversary of the creation of the Regt.
This Silver Star, with enamelled centre for the Offz, finally, will only be worn by the Offz; because the Mannsch
never received the new Wappen… From then on this Regt holds the Ludwigs Orden. Offz from then on
wear the four gold plated Offz stars on the base plate of the Kugelspitze*"
(*Can be seen in "Spiked Helmets of Imperial Germany" page 176)
More to read in: "Imperial German Military Officers Helmets"-N.G.Stubbs: page 391.
Francis
weirdpyramid
New member
I have one of these helmets also with the Ludwig order attached through the leather shell of the helmet. From what I remember is Karl's helmet here the star is held to place on the Hessen wappen itself. I know of a couple other collectors who have the same attachment as mine and others who don't, must have been a manufacturers preference.
My issue with my helmet has always been was the helmet a officers FAR 25 helmet and a collector placed the star on it later or was it actually placed on it during the period of 1915. I will never know but it is certainly possible. A officers FAR 25 helmet is rare enough but you add the star and now its a super rare helmet and a very expensive one.
All my book references with good pictures of this helmet have normal pre 1915 chinscales. The one on page 244 of Deutsche Offizershelme aus der Kaiserzeit Band 2 being the most exquisite example of one of these helmets in my opinion.
I always wondered how these were "awarded", in a ceremony? or was a officer just able to buy one and have it attached if he wanted to? These also were to be awarded to EM helmets also but the idea is that it never was added or produced.
Here is a picture of the back attachment of my star.
and the inside attachment.
My issue with my helmet has always been was the helmet a officers FAR 25 helmet and a collector placed the star on it later or was it actually placed on it during the period of 1915. I will never know but it is certainly possible. A officers FAR 25 helmet is rare enough but you add the star and now its a super rare helmet and a very expensive one.
RON said:
All my book references with good pictures of this helmet have normal pre 1915 chinscales. The one on page 244 of Deutsche Offizershelme aus der Kaiserzeit Band 2 being the most exquisite example of one of these helmets in my opinion.
pppara said:
I always wondered how these were "awarded", in a ceremony? or was a officer just able to buy one and have it attached if he wanted to? These also were to be awarded to EM helmets also but the idea is that it never was added or produced.
Here is a picture of the back attachment of my star.
and the inside attachment.
weirdpyramid
New member
pppara said:
I am confused. What is fantasy and what is regulatory? :-k
Am I missing something here? According to Kraus "Die Feldgraue Uniformierung" and Voigt "Deutschlands Heere bis 1918", the star as authorized on the 125th anniversary of the regiment's formation had the date "6 April 1915" on it?? I don't see it on Adler's admittedly rather lovely helmet.
Regards
Glenn
Regards
Glenn
weirdpyramid
New member
Glennj said:
Getting the books out! This is too interesting to sit back and wait. also I am going to have to bring up the parade trichter question with this regiment because I have discovered that not all books have documented this regiment when it comes to officers as wearing a hessen trichter vs a prussian trichter.
I was in Potsdam this week and managed to have a look at the regimental history of Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 25 at the MGFA. In it is reproduced the Tagesbefehl introducing the the new helmet plate. As discussed earlier, this order does appear to explicitly authorise the adorning of the star with the date 6. April 1915.
Regards
Glenn
Regards
Glenn
weirdpyramid
New member
Glennj said:
Very interesting but from my understanding is that among collectors/historians/authors the consensus is that it was never produced with the date on it, only the swords were added to the star. I have read also that enlisted helmets in this regiment were to get this star also attached but never has one been found to exist, only the officer version can be found.
Interesting indeed,
Thanks
Glenn
Much appreciated if you could point me in direction of the sources from whence this consensus is derived and I shall attempt to do some more digging myself. As an aside, Kraus refers to an article by Jürgen Olmes in "Das Sponton" from 1961 which questions whether this star was actually worn.
Thanks
Glenn