The Kaiser’s Prize (Kaiserschiessabzeichen)

[2nd.Leibhusar]

For all interested parties;
A collection of these will be auctioned in a few days in Germany at Stauffer;
www.stauffer-auktionen.de
from lot number 1038, I believe

 

[KAGGR#1]

I have already posted this Waffenrock under latest find
so I will add it here because of the Kaiser Prize
Waffenrock for the Elizabeth Garde Grenadier Regt 3 / 4 Kp with the 1912 Kaiser Prize

Here is some addition information sent to me by Jens ( KIR 145 ) about the 1912 Kaiser Prize
quote ;

p.s.: there is also a story about this imperial badge for 1912. Originally, the Erste Garde Regiment had acquired this award in 1912. But afterwards it turned out that the 6th Company of the Erste Garde Regiment had cheated in the competition (they had more hidden ammunition). When this was discovered, the prize was awarded to the second-placed Grenadier Regiment No. 3. ; -)

 

[KAGGR#1]

Any collectors who have in their collection a Waffenrock with the Kaiser or King's prize
still on the Waffenrock
please post photos of them
I know Willie has some
and Jens has the great KIR 145

Years ago I owned a Jager , but I sold it
Thanks

 

[KIR145]

Any collectors who have in their collection a Waffenrock with the Kaiser or King's prize
still on the Waffenrock
please post photos of them
I know Willie has some
and Jens has the great KIR 145

Years ago I owned a Jager , but I sold it
Thanks

Hi Steve,
here is my tunic with Kaiserabzeichen and Kaiserschnur!

And you have to take a look into the back pockets inside (Schosstaschen) of your jacket, maybe there is also a label from the tailor?
Sometimes there is also something "hidden" in there.
Best regards, Jens

 

[KAGGR#1]

Hi Steve,
here is my tunic with Kaiserabzeichen and Kaiserschnur!

And you have to take a look into the back pockets inside (Schosstaschen) of your jacket, maybe there is also a label from the tailor?
Sometimes there is also something "hidden" in there.
Best regards, Jens

Jens
Very nice
Thank you for the photos and the post
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

For all interested parties;
A collection of these will be auctioned in a few days in Germany at Stauffer;
www.stauffer-auktionen.de
from lot number 1038, I believe

For the auctions
add 25 % commission to the hammer price
and if you are not in a country that deals in the Euro
add at least another 10 % over the U S Dollar
total is 35 % over the hammer price
Steve

 

[JzPf]

Steve,

Was the red cloth in the crown added by the individual soldiers?

 

[KAGGR#1]

Steve,

Was the red cloth in the crown added by the individual soldiers?

Dennis
IMO the red cloth was added some where along the way
I don't think that it was allowed to be worn that way on the Waffenrock
That's just my thinking
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Steve,

Was the red cloth in the crown added by the individual soldiers?

Dennis
It seems the red is always added to the King's prize
there is no room behind the Kaiser crown
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

For all interested parties;
A collection of these will be auctioned in a few days in Germany at Stauffer;
www.stauffer-auktionen.de
from lot number 1038, I believe

The Stauffer auction is now over .
Did any members bid on the Kaiser or King's prizes ?
Some of the King's prizes which were the last ones listed
went for low prices IMO
they started at 150 Euro each and 7 lots went for 180 Euro each
plus 25 % commission
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

The Stauffer auction is now over .
Did any members bid on the Kaiser or King's prizes ?
Some of the King's prizes which were the last ones listed
went for low prices IMO
they started at 150 Euro each and 7 lots went for 180 Euro each
plus 25 % commission
Steve

There were also some lots that didn't sell
If anyone wants to ask about them
a nice example could be bought for 150 Euro plus 24 % commission
Steve

 

[Steve Nick]

There were also some lots that didn't sell
If anyone wants to ask about them
a nice example could be bought for 150 Euro plus 24 % commission
Steve

I did have a look at the results yesterday. I'm pretty much just an observer these days. A 25% hammer fee plus exchange rates with the Cdn dollar spiralling into the ground has me on the sidelines most of the time. Although there were a couple of surprising No Bids that I might be able to follow up on.

 

[KAGGR#1]

I did have a look at the results yesterday. I'm pretty much just an observer these days. A 25% hammer fee plus exchange rates with the Cdn dollar spiralling into the ground has me on the sidelines most of the time. Although there were a couple of surprising No Bids that I might be able to follow up on.

Steve ;
150 Euro starting bid + 25 % Hammer = 188 Euro
Weitze sells them at 300 Euro
He or his people could buy them all at starting bid
and sell them on his site
I will be interested to hear if you have any luck with the unsold lots

You are good at numbers
The M G unit Kaiser & King prizes were only given out 10 times
between Prussia & Saxony ; 6 Prussian and 4 Saxon
Does anyone know the number of men in an M G unit ?
Steve

 

[Mike H]

According to the internet …

“During World War I, a German army machine gun company typically consisted of around 150 to 200 men. This included gunners, ammunition carriers, support personnel, and officers.”

I don’t know about pre-war.

 

[KAGGR#1]

According to the internet …

“During World War I, a German army machine gun company typically consisted of around 150 to 200 men. This included gunners, ammunition carriers, support personnel, and officers.”

I don’t know about pre-war.

A guess would be more men during the war
but now this brings another question
When an Machine Gun unit won the Kaiser prize or Kings prize
did every man in the unit get the prize
or only the gun crew ?
Steve

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm II]

A guess would be more men during the war
but now this brings another question
When an Machine Gun unit won the Kaiser prize or Kings prize
did every man in the unit get the prize
or only the gun crew ?
Steve

Personally I think it would make the most sense to say only the Gun Crew.
However I could see it being either way, because you would need to think, the Gun Crew is nothing without the rest of the battalion, however the Gun Crew are the ones that actually do the things to get the Prize. That is a very good question and I too would be interested to see if anyone knows the answer to it.

 

[KAGGR#1]

Personally I think it would make the most sense to say only the Gun Crew.
However I could see it being either way, because you would need to think, the Gun Crew is nothing without the rest, however the Gun Crew is the ones that actually do the things to get the Prize. That is a very good question and I too would be interested to see if anyone knows that answer to it.

The same question would apply to the Naval Kaiser Prizes given out for a ship
How many and what crew members got them ?
Steve

 

[KIR145]

Steve,
according to the Verordnung from the 2nd September 1903:
"... that the badge is only awarded every two years and that it is only to be worn by the MG-Abteilung for one year. ..."
... so I assume that the entire MG Abteilung received the badge!???

In the "Taschenbuch des Generalstabsoffiziers" from 1914 it says about MG-Abteilung:
4 officers, 112 NCO's, enlisted men and lower officers.
So there were probably a maximum of 112 badges (in the army corps every two years)?

Vorschrift DVE Nr. 219a (~1913):
a) die Stärke einer etatsmässige MG-Abteilung:
4 Offiziere
14 Unteroffiziere
1 Trompeter
9 Gefreite
78 Gemeine
8 Trainsoldaten
1 Fahnenschmied
1 Sanitätsunteroffizier
(6 MGs)
insgesamt 4 Offiziere, 112 Unteroffiziere und Mann.

b) die Stärke einer etatsmässige MG-Kompanie:
insgesamt 4 Offiziere, 92 Unteroffiziere und Mann.

c) die Stärke einer etatsmässige Reserve-MG-Kompanie:
insgesamt 4 Offiziere, 93 Unteroffiziere und Mann.

d) die Stärke einer etatsmässige Festungs-MG-Abteilung zu 6 MaschinenGewehren:
4 Offiziere
8 Unteroffiziere
6 Gefreite
29 Gemeine
insgesamt 4 Offiziere, 43 Unteroffiziere und Mann.

Just a guess, unfortunately there is nothing about the exact number of badges.
Pietsch Königs-/Kaiser-Abzeichen
Best regards, Jens

Addition:
for the navy I think that only the gun crews received the badge:
"... Das Abzeichen erhalten sämtliche Mannschaften, welche bei der Verleihung des Kaiserpreises zur Geschützbedienung des betreffenden Schiffes gehört haben und sich an Bord befinden. .."

 

[KAGGR#1]

Steve,
according to the Verordnung from the 2nd September 1903:
"... that the badge is only awarded every two years and that it is only to be worn by the MG-Abteilung for one year. ..."
... so I assume that the entire MG Abteilung received the badge!???

In the "Taschenbuch des Generalstabsoffiziers" from 1914 it says about MG-Abteilung:
4 officers, 112 NCO's, enlisted men and lower officers.
So there were probably a maximum of 112 badges (in the army corps every two years)?

Just a guess, unfortunately there is nothing about the exact number.
Best regards, Jens

Pietsch Königs-/Kaiser-Abzeichen

Addition:
for the navy I think that only the gun crews received the badge:
"... Das Abzeichen erhalten sämtliche Mannschaften, welche bei der Verleihung des Kaiserpreises zur Geschützbedienung des betreffenden Schiffes gehört haben und sich an Bord befinden. .."

Jens
Excellent information
Many thanks
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

I wanted to show what I consider my best Infantry Kaiser Prize
4 wins ; 1902 ; 1906 ; 1907 1908
by I R 99 / 10 Kp
Steve