The Reichsadler

[chrispaulodale]

One other clue, or dead end, is a helmet I saw in the 18 November, 1972 catalogue from the Tradition Auctionhaus, Munich. The helmet was almost identical to mine (and most likely identical to the one at the SOS). The difference was that it had officer stars, and a silk liner, which mine does not. It was lot #211, and was listed as : SEE-BATALLIONE, HELM EINES ZAHLMEISTERS der MARINE INFANTERIE.

Possibly not that far off. He could be an official... an Illustration by Pietsch published in Charles Woolley's "Uniforms of the German Colonial Troops" on P122 shows a vetinary officer from the Tsingtao garrison. He's wearing a Picklehaube just like yours... yellow metal fittings, chinscales etc. The illustration is too small to define if it's a Prussian eagle or Imperial on the Pickelhaube. But as all troops in Tsingtao (Navy, Seebatallion and the occasional East Asian Occupation troops) were imperial rather than state, I would have thought he'd have to have an imperial eagle...

Cheers
Chris

 

[chrispaulodale]

Here's a great collection of imperial eagles from the Fort de la Pompelle Museum near Riems in France.

The top row are naval caps, the second row Marine Infantry (with a Cameroon Schutztruppe officers hat in the middle) and the bottom row East Asians.

This photo is from WikiCommons http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Casques_de_marins_allemands.JPG by Gérald Garitan.

Cheers
Chris

 

[drakegoodman]

Better late than never.

P.S. It's not a parrot :wink:


XII. See-Bataillon / Marine Luftschiff Abteilung II by drakegoodman, on Flickr


XII See-Batl. by drakegoodman, on Flickr

 

[Arran]

P.S. It's not a parrot :wink:

Good Lord! It sure looks like one!

 

[RON]

Nice old thread!
Here's my contribution to keep it alive: http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7774" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[RON]

OK gentlemen, here's a riddle for you:
I'm an EM/OR pickelhaube with the Reichsadler and only a Reichs cockade, my spike (& crossbase) looks like a Police spike, I have a ventilated spine, and M91 knopf... and yet, my liner looks like an older model with its square cut finger ends, not to mention the adler's crown which could also be an older model since it seems slightly higher (as discussed above with DASH's helmet), plus the front AND back visor metal trims... WHAT AM I ??? :-k ](*,)

 

[RON]

This issue has been keeping me busy for 2 days in a row now...

Here's the closest photos I was able to find so far:
This Japanese collector displays a Pickelhaube described as "Elsass-Lothringen Police NCO Helmet" without any additional details as to model or period. It has some similar fittings (same little silver spike & visor trims) but doesn't have the Reichsadler: http://masas-attic.jugem.jp/?eid=133" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Similar description here: http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm59.pl?f=NR_LOT&c=6185&t=temartic_M_D&db=kat59_m.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(note both helmets in the latter links have what seem to be covered/unused original wappen holes)

As for the foot gendarmes from Alsace Lorraine depicted in the photo hereafter, they seem to have the combination of Reichsadler + little spike on their helmets but I can't tell for sure... the fellow to the right has the clearest helmet but it's not enough: http://www.kukri.de/reich1-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This guy too seems to be wearing a helmet with the police spike + leather chinstrap + Reichsadler (?): http://www.kukri.de/reich2-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Aaaaargh! (Heeeelp!) ](*,)

 

[chrispaulodale]

Hi Ron,

I can't help much but I did like that Japanese collector's link. On this page-
http://masas-attic.jugem.jp/?cid=16&PHPSESSID=983e36b794d6f34d395c320d03b923ef" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He has more Reichsadler Wappen. A possible Schutztruppe helm, this RG one, another RG one for officers and a Marine Infantry one. So thank you for showing me the link!

Cheers
Chris

 

[RON]

So far, I have found that the type of (silver nickel) spike seen in Masa's Attic or on my "mystery helmet" is for communal or municipal police or 'Schutzmännern' (= Police Constables)... According to one of Joe's contributions to an old thread here, it was referred to as 'Schutzmannschaftspitze'...

Masa's helmet--which has a 'WII' cypher wappen topped by the German Imperial Crown--is actually described as an "Elsass-Lothringen Police NCO Helmet" & "Helm für Schutzmänner, Reichslande Elsaß–Lothringen, Kaiserlichen Schutzmannschaft".

It is also described elsewhere on the net as a Model 1868 helmet for the Kaiserlichen Schutzmannschaft in Elsass-Lothringen. Being pre-1891, this justifies the old chinscale posts that can be clearly spotted in all photos hereafter. One would also infer that the Masa helmet's liner is also of the older model similar to my "mystery helmet"... We can't see if the spine is ventilated either but I would presume it isn't:

Other helmets with the silver nickel 'Schutzmannschaftspitze' (described as per their owners):

> (Prussian) Königliche Mediatstädten (middle cities/townships?) Schutzmannschaft Helmet (used from 1866 to 1918) featuring the 'WII' cypher wappen topped with the Prussian Royal Crown:

But so far nothing on the combination silver nickel 'Schutzmannschaftspitze' + Imperial Reichsadler + M91 Posts & leather chinstrap & ventilated spine (all M1895 pickelhaube features) + older style liner... ](*,)

P.S. I hope the various helmet owners won't hold my directly reproducing their photos against me :wink:

 

[joerookery]

ps1111 by joerookery, on Flickr

 

[RON]

Hey Joe,
That (very nice) photo of yours is part of the old thread here that had given me the most leads as to the 'Schutzmannschaftspitze'... :thumb up:
From what I've learned here and there on the net, the Prussian Schutzmann (i.e. Policeman or Police Constable) in your photo is wearing a "Königliche Mediatstädten Schutzmannschaft Helmet"--probably M1868--with the WII Royal Prussian Cypher making the guy definitely Prussian as opposed to the Schutzmannschaft Helmets worn in Reichsland Alsace-Lorraine that would have the WII Imperial Cypher as per the photos in my previous post... but you already knew all that.

I presume these 'Mediatstädten' were part of Prussia.
You say the photo is dated 1914/mobilisation; anything more on the back?

Also, I suppose these 'Schutzmänner' inlcuded Kommunalpolizei (Communal or Rural Police), Stadtpolizei (City or Municipal Police), Staat Polizei (State Police), Polizeiverwaltung (Police Administration), etc. All types of rural or urban police force...
It would be good for me to understand where these guys stood from the Gendarmerie (zu Fuss or zu Pferde), Reichsgendarmerie, Landgendarmerie (peacetime MPs), Feldgendarmerie (wartime MPs: mobilized from former L.G. personnel as you once explained), etc., in terms of hierarchy/flowchart if any...

 

[RON]

Well, looks like the 'mystery helmet' can be given a label now thanks to the invaluable help of Glenn :bravo:

Kaiserliche Schutzmannschaft (Imperial Constabulary) Polizeiwachtmeister (Police Sergeant-Major) Pickelhaube M1895, with Neusilber (nickel silver) fixtures, which happens to be fitted with a pre-1895 leather liner unless this was perculiar to the Polizeiwachtmeister rank (?)

As clarified by Glenn, the three main urban areas of Alsace-Lorraine--Straßburg, Mülhausen & Metz--were policed by the Kaiserliche Schutzmannschaft (Imperial Constabulary). Polizeiwachtmeister (Police Sergeant-Major) & superior ranks wore the Reichsadler whereas a Schutzmann (Police Sergeant) wore the WII Imperial Cypher.

I now need to double-check if this police rank wore the regular EM/OR Prussian Cockade as featured on my helmet or if I should start shopping for an NCO version (with the silver ring) ?

 

[Glennj]

Ronny,

You really need an Unteroffizier mit Portepee cockade with silver ring.

Regards
Glenn

 

[RON]

This one will be tough to find but hopefully easier than my Shako's EM Feldzeichen...
Aaaargh ](*,)

 

[RON]

OK just found both a good Prussian Feldzeichen and a mint NCO Cockade in one shot so there you go, mission accomplished! \/

This babe will complete the above "not-such-a-mystery-anymore-helmet" as per Glenn's (invaluable) advice :thumb up:

 

[morel5000]

found a good Prussian Feldzeichen:

Where? Did he have two? Nice that you got em.

Best regards,
Michel

 

[ccj]

Superb Naval Infantry Shako. I would love to own one just like this one some day.

This thread may not go far, but I thought it might be interesting to explore helmets specific to the German Reich. By this, I mean headdress worn by those military and civilian contingents created after the unification of Germany. For example, the Königliche Preussische Marine and Norddeutsche Bundesmarine would be combined in 1871 to form the Kaiserliche Marine, of which the See Bataillone (naval infantry) were a component; Reichsland Elsaß-Lothringen would be policed by a newly created Reichs-Gendarmerie; and Germany's growing colonial interests would be protected by overseas Schutztruppe.

With respect to helmets, a characteristic shared by these diverse forces was a Wappen derived from the Reichsadler, an eagle adorned with the state crown of the new German Empire and heraldic Collar of the Black Eagle. Additionally, a single Kokarde or, where appropriate, Feldzeichen in the national colors was worn.

I have but three examples to share, but my hope is that other members of the forum will contribute to the "database."

Tschako for Reserve Officer, Kaiserliche Seebataillon:

Pickelhaube for Wachtmeister zu Fuß, Reichsland Elsaß-Lothringen Gendarmerie:

Pickelhaube for Officer, Ostasiatisches Besatzungsbrigade:

Chas.

 

[Arran]

Its a real shame that this thread has been gutted of its pics. Here is the 1916 pattern pickelhaube for officers of the Reichskolonialamt...

 

[kaiser]

Thats a beauty for sure first time to see sutch a reichsadler
Thats a nice helmet

Jonas

 

[stuka f]

Love it too!