The Van Bosstraeten Auction

Sandy ;
I have been thinking about what a collector friend once told me ;
told me ;
Steve , I do NOT regret the deals that I have done
I only regret the deals that I didn't do
Wise words and similar to my philosophy. When I see antique stuff I want, I just have to grab it if my budget allows.
2 to 3 years ago a large number of gift pins and beautiful gift frames from the German majesties were in circulation. Because of the amount, I thought they were offered several times a year and waited. Now I'm annoyed that I didn't buy it back then, because there are still a few offers, but they were way too expensive for me recently.
 
When such a beautiful collection of Imperial headgear is being sold on an internationally reputable auction house like HH and this collection is known by many most serious and senior collectors to be filled exclusively with high quality and untouched pieces, then it’s quite obvious that these pieces will be sold very easily at very high prices. All headgear of this magnificent collection have been sold (100%) and half of them scored prices double of their initial estimate pricing. Just very few pieces were sold at estimate pricing. That’s enough said for the uniqueness of some spectacular pieces and their untouched minty conditions. I will keep the catalog and the price results list of this auction as a reference for future auctions.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

Claudio
 
By the way I was lucky enough to get this one: Lot # 4071

Tschako für Offiziere im Hannoverschen Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 10, um 1910​

Steifer Korpus mit Filzbezug, Deckel, Bundleder und Schirme schwarz lackiert (krakeliert), schön vergoldete Messingbeschläge. Versplintetes Adleremblem mit Bandeau "Peninsula, Waterloo, Venta del Pozo" und durchbrochen gearbeiteter Krone. Flache lederunterlegte Schuppenketten an Steckrosetten, Reichskokarde aus lackiertem Eisenblech, oben eingestecktes preußisches Feldzeichen für Offiziere mit schwarzem Samt. Ockerfarbenes Seidenripsfutter, ockerfarbenes Schweißleder, in der Glocke das alte Größenetikett "55". In ledernem Tragekoffer (außen altes Etikett "Jäger Tschako", Beriemung unvollständig, im Deckel Etikett "M. Neumann, Berlin"). Dazu ein Originalfoto des Tschakoträgers (Maße 10 x 6 cm). Teilweise leicht beschädigt, Altersspuren. Selten und in schönem Zustand.

Zustand: II
 

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This Bavarian Tschako of the Verkehrstruppen (also Luftschiffer) was spectacular IMHO … Lot # 4045

Tschako M 1895 für Offiziere der Verkehrstruppen​

Steifer Korpus aus Ersatzmaterial mit schwarzem Filzbezug, schwarz lackiertem Deckel, Schirmen und Bund, silbernen Beschlägen und feinem hellbraunen Schweißleder mit beigem Seidenripsfutter. Innen die alte Größenangabe "56". Versplintetes Emblem, Feldzeichen und Kokarde in Offiziersausführung. Im originalen Koffer (berieben). Leichte Trage- und Altersspuren. Äußerst selten in dieser hervorragenden Qualität.

Zustand: II +
 

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Collecting is not regulated, everybody should do it in their own way. Whether you enjoy bargain hunting or collecting high-priced items, it's important that you follow your passion and enjoy your collection 🙃
There is a big reasonable area between those two extrems... :giggle:
I think it is not a source of joy for us "small and normal" collectors, to observe such a crazy and absolutely irrational price evolution.

For my part, I never regret a deal, wether done or not. It´s a fact that you will never get all that you are wanting in your life... The last winners are always the progeny...

Philippe
;)
 
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There is a big reasonable area between those two extrems... :giggle:
I think it is not a source of joy for us "small and normal" collectors, to observe such a crazy and absolutely irrational price evolution.

For my part, I never regret a deal, wether done or not. It´s a fact that you will never get all that you are wanting in your life... The last winners are always the progeny...

Philippe
;)
I couldn't agree more Philippe. Karel's collection was indeed world-class, but I do think many buyers got into a buyers frenzy.
€2300 for an Wurtt M15? That's crazy money, I bought mine for a bit more than a 3rd of that, the one you documented so well.

Regards, Coert.
 
I couldn't agree more Philippe. Karel's collection was indeed world-class, but I do think many buyers got into a buyers frenzy.
€2300 for an Wurtt M15? That's crazy money, I bought mine for a bit more than a 3rd of that, the one you documented so well.

Regards, Coert.
That Wurtten M15 started below 1000 and a phone bidding came in and shot it up to 2300. Wonder if the phone bidder puts on the right lot ? :-}
 
It seems like our friends AOK has caught the "Frenzy" syndrome too. AOK had just listed few nice helmets but prices are nice too.
 
It seems like our friends AOK has caught the "Frenzy" syndrome too. AOK had just listed few nice helmets but prices are nice too.
Well, I feel like the starting prices were all very good but the realized prices were high on many items, some were very reasonable. I wasn't able to be online auction day and missed a few items by a very small amount. However, even it the prices were good/reasonable I my budget would not allow 20 helmets... wow

Congrats Amy
 
It seems like our friends AOK has caught the "Frenzy" syndrome too. AOK had just listed few nice helmets but prices are nice too.
Yes, that´s exactly what I mean... Dealers are not that blind...
It will be probably soon impossible for humble but passionated and knowledged collectors who do not have the necessary cash, to follow this evolution. Collection is unfortunately getting elitist...Very sad thing! And I´m pretty sure, that most of those people that are able to win only with the force of their money, neither know much about history of the pieces they are buying nor are really interested in it. Glance, power to own and to accumulate are getting more and more the keywords...
Philippe
;)
 
neither know much about history of the pieces they are buying nor are really interested in it
Hi Philippe,
I think you're being a bit harsh here ;)
Different collectors have different interests, imagine how it would be if we would all desperately try to buy the same items. I do like your approach very much, where the traceability of the helmet and its wearer is so important, however I also respect the collectors that want to have a pristine example of all the different pickelhaubes in the German army, and have less focus on the history of that particular helmet. I myself am very interested in regimental associations, all the regiments I'm interested in used the standard Prussian infantry or field-artillery helmet, so I have 6 identical looking helmets where the only difference are the stamps on the rear visor :)
Regards,
Lars
 
Here's a guessing estimate of what the auction house will get from the commissions from the sale of items + the commission charged to the seller:

214,012.50 Euros if they receive 25% commission from every item sold to the buyers. (I'm not sure if a portion of that % is paid to VAT tax to the German Government and the auction house receives less than 25% for the sold lots, or if the VAT tax is added on top of this 25% commission charged to the buyer.)

It's hard to know for certain how much Hermann Historica charges the seller for a sale with this large of value. I would think from experience that it is a minimum of 18%. Maybe 20%, I do not know for certain, I am only guessing. And then there might be advertising/promotional fees which the auction house will charge on top of what ever flat percentage rate they charge the seller, in order to promote the auction. This would be added on top of this percentage. In the U.S. a typical auction house will also charge advertising/promotional fee on top of the flat commission % rate they charge for selling a collection. It all varies by the value/size of the sale, and varies from auction house to auction house. Some charge as much as 24 or 25% to the seller, in the U.S. to sell items on auction. The advertising fees/promotional fees could easily add up to many thousands of Euros more. I don't know if European auction houses charge the sellers an advertising/promotion fees as a separate expense like they typically do in the the U.S. If they traveled to pick up the collection, my guess would be that they charge the seller for that as well. Lots of expenses involved in any auction of this size. A speculative example might be that if it cost this auction house more to print and mail the auction catalogs than what they sold and shipped the catalogs for as a cost for each one. I do not know if that is true, it is only a speculative scenario. If it would be true, the auction house would pass that extra cost that was not covered by the printing cost of the catalog, and pass that on to the seller as an expense for promoting the sale. That would be typical as an expense an auction house would pass on to the seller, in the advertising/promotional area. I'm not sure if that will be the case with this auction or not, it is only speculation as an example of what typical expenses are that are charged to a seller on top of the flat % fee to sell the items. I remember that the late Ron Manion told me when I worked for his auction house years ago, that the subscription cost for the catalogs did not cover the price it cost to print them and mail them.

128,407 Euros if they charge the seller only 15% fee to sell the collection.
154,089 Euros if they charge the seller 18% fee to sell the collection.
171,210 Euros if they charge the seller 20% fee to sell the collection.
Maybe they charge 22%, or 24%? I honestly do not know without asking the auction house. I would be very surprised if they charge the seller less than 18%. I know some auction houses here in the U.S. will only charge a seller 15% if you have a certain value amount to sell that meets what ever threshold they have established for a lower, 15% commission fee to the seller.

So, adding the 25% commission from the buyers plus a % fee to the seller, the auction house takes in 342,420 Euros at 15% fee to seller, or 368,101.50 Euros at 18% fee to seller, to maybe 385,222.50 Euros at 20% fee to seller. Those would be my guesses, unless some of that goes to VAT tax

That's a large sum of money generated from the sale of an 856,000 Euros auction collection.

It sort of makes my mind spin to think about it... I'm in the wrong business!

Yes, I realize the auction house has a huge amount of expenses for staff, photographers, building overhead expenses, storage, and other items associated with running a business of this type.
 
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When such a beautiful collection of Imperial headgear is being sold on an internationally reputable auction house like HH and this collection is known by many most serious and senior collectors to be filled exclusively with high quality and untouched pieces, then it’s quite obvious that these pieces will be sold very easily at very high prices. All headgear of this magnificent collection have been sold (100%) and half of them scored prices double of their initial estimate pricing. Just very few pieces were sold at estimate pricing. That’s enough said for the uniqueness of some spectacular pieces and their untouched minty conditions. I will keep the catalog and the price results list of this auction as a reference for future auctions.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

Claudio
Well said ( written )
I just completed writting in the hammer prices for most
all of the helmets sold in my hard copy catalog .
A short statement
when I started to collect in 1970 I paid $ 250 U S Dollars for a
Hessian FAR 25 officers helmet with the Ludwig star
Hammer price for the FAR 25 helmet at HH was 11,000 Euro
before the 25 %
how times change !
I sold it circa 1992 ' Mistake
I have since replaced it
here is the former one with bush
and the one that I have now
SteveHessian FAR 25 Officer.jpegHessian FAR 25  officer 1915.JPG
 
By the way I was lucky enough to get this one: Lot # 4071

Tschako für Offiziere im Hannoverschen Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 10, um 1910​

Steifer Korpus mit Filzbezug, Deckel, Bundleder und Schirme schwarz lackiert (krakeliert), schön vergoldete Messingbeschläge. Versplintetes Adleremblem mit Bandeau "Peninsula, Waterloo, Venta del Pozo" und durchbrochen gearbeiteter Krone. Flache lederunterlegte Schuppenketten an Steckrosetten, Reichskokarde aus lackiertem Eisenblech, oben eingestecktes preußisches Feldzeichen für Offiziere mit schwarzem Samt. Ockerfarbenes Seidenripsfutter, ockerfarbenes Schweißleder, in der Glocke das alte Größenetikett "55". In ledernem Tragekoffer (außen altes Etikett "Jäger Tschako", Beriemung unvollständig, im Deckel Etikett "M. Neumann, Berlin"). Dazu ein Originalfoto des Tschakoträgers (Maße 10 x 6 cm). Teilweise leicht beschädigt, Altersspuren. Selten und in schönem Zustand.

Zustand: II
Excellent purchase 3600 Euro
Steve
 
Here's a guessing estimate of what the auction house will get from the commissions from the sale of items + the commission charged to the seller:

214,012.50 Euros if they receive 25% commission from every item sold to the buyers. (I'm not sure if a portion of that % is paid to VAT tax to the German Government and the auction house receives less than 25% for the sold lots, or if the VAT tax is added on top of this 25% commission charged to the buyer.)

It's hard to know for certain how much Hermann Historica charges the seller for a sale with this large of value. I would think from experience that it is a minimum of 18%. Maybe 20%, I do not know for certain, I am only guessing. And then there might be advertising/promotional fees which the auction house will charge on top of what ever flat percentage rate they charge the seller, in order to promote the auction. This would be added on top of this percentage. In the U.S. a typical auction house will also charge advertising/promotional fee on top of the flat commission % rate they charge for selling a collection. It all varies by the value/size of the sale, and varies from auction house to auction house. Some charge as much as 24 or 25% to the seller, in the U.S. to sell items on auction. The advertising fees/promotional fees could easily add up to many thousands of Euros more. I don't know if European auction houses charge the sellers an advertising/promotion fees as a separate expense like they typically do in the the U.S. If they traveled to pick up the collection, my guess would be that they charge the seller for that as well. Lots of expenses involved in any auction of this size. A speculative example might be that if it cost this auction house more to print and mail the auction catalogs than what they sold and shipped the catalogs for as a cost for each one. I do not know if that is true, it is only a speculative scenario. If it would be true, the auction house would pass that extra cost that was not covered by the printing cost of the catalog, and pass that on to the seller as an expense for promoting the sale. That would be typical as an expense an auction house would pass on to the seller, in the advertising/promotional area. I'm not sure if that will be the case with this auction or not, it is only speculation as an example of what typical expenses are that are charged to a seller on top of the flat % fee to sell the items. I remember that the late Ron Manion told me when I worked for his auction house years ago, that the subscription cost for the catalogs did not cover the price it cost to print them and mail them.

128,407 Euros if they charge the seller only 15% fee to sell the collection.
154,089 Euros if they charge the seller 18% fee to sell the collection.
171,210 Euros if they charge the seller 20% fee to sell the collection.
Maybe they charge 22%, or 24%? I honestly do not know without asking the auction house. I would be very surprised if they charge the seller less than 18%. I know some auction houses here in the U.S. will only charge a seller 15% if you have a certain value amount to sell that meets what ever threshold they have established for a lower, 15% commission fee to the seller.

So, adding the 25% commission from the buyers plus a % fee to the seller, the auction house takes in 342,420 Euros at 15% fee to seller, or 368,101.50 Euros at 18% fee to seller, to maybe 385,222.50 Euros at 20% fee to seller. Those would be my guesses, unless some of that goes to VAT tax

That's a large sum of money generated from the sale of an 856,000 Euros auction collection.

It sort of makes my mind spin to think about it... I'm in the wrong business!

Yes, I realize the auction house has a huge amount of expenses for staff, photographers, building overhead expenses, storage, and other items associated with running a business of this type.
I have never sold anything at an auction house
But I know collectors that have
I have been told that IF you a selling a large important collection at auction
you can bargain with them over the amount they charge you
IF the collection is really good you might get down to 10 -15 %
on top of their 25 % to buyer
they still make 35 to 40 %
The best way to go is to sell to fellow collectors
Steve
 
Hmm,I did a spreadsheet input all prices, my min and max bids before the auction and I bid accordingly to my spreadsheet. There are 3 items that I went €100-200 above to win them. So not that much of impulse buying.
I am in Singapore where I do not have much avenues to buy spikes. I bid on ebay and buy from age of Kings. I seldom bid on auction house. I didn't even bid on MB stuff years back. I bid this time round on items that I would like to have within my budget :)
well done
after you get them in
please take a photo as a group of them all together
then you can do one at a time on latest find
and keep us busy and interested for sometime
maybe the thread needs to be changed to " Latest Purchase "
I got only 4 helmets ( not up to yor speed )
I would have liked more but there is a "start and a stop "
Steve
 
I particularly liked this one here, too: Lot # 4022

Helm für einen Fähnrich im 1. Badischen Leib-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 109, um 1900​

Schwarz lackierte Lederglocke mit runden Schirmen und versilberten Neusilberbeschlägen. Verschraubtes Emblem in Form des badischen Greifs mit aufgelegtem Hausorden der Treue, Teller mit vier Rundkopfschrauben, Perlstabfries und glatter, versilberter Schraubspitze (berieben, gedunkelt). Flache, belederte Schuppenketten aus vergoldetem Metall an Steckrosetten und lackierten Blechkokarden. Beiges Seidenripsfutter, ockerfarbenes Lederschweißband, rot und grün unterfütterte Schirme, in der Glocke die alte Größenangabe "56 1/2". Trage- und Altersspuren. Schöne Erhaltung.

Zustand: II
both are very nice .
No report as of yet
so maybe not bought by PH.com members
Steve
 
One last question ;
Several of the Probe items were withdrawn from the auction
Philippe wrote that one of them had been reported as stolen
by the Bavarian Museum
The only Probe item that I saw that was sold was the J z P helmet
Has anyone heard anymore about that ?
Steve
 
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